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A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

utcc.utoronto.ca

41–50 of 255 posts

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#41
post #10

> There are a huge variety of intra-organizational communication systems, to the point where pretty much every large enterprise provider seems to have one (Slack, Microsoft Teams, Discord, etc etc). That's why I find Delta Chat piggybacking on Push-IMAP such an interesting concept: https://delta.chat

I like the idea alot. Too bad the app thorws errors left and right with Gmail and Live making it unuseable to me...

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#42
Please HN, let email die. it is unsecurable (universal) in transit or storage (mta's) and because of its reliability and universal adoption a ton of security depends on it like a very rotten and rusted link in a chain even a small child can break. It is an almost 4 decade old tech where any security you find for it is purely opportunistic.

I am very concerned how people here are stating how good, simple and reliable it is. They are not wrong but so is IPv4 and the C language. Sentiment has no place in a building a secure and proper future technology.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#44
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it suffice (tech aside for a moment!) if you could migrate your email adress with you from one provider to the next? Like for phone numbers (at least here you can migrate the whole number, even with ndc) The state could give out an emailadress like a social security number and you just use that as an alias and can choose whatever provider you want. And for these emailadresses the providers would be obliged to t…

You already can do that. Just buy a domain name, like mySSN.us. You are free to point it at any email provider of your choosing.

I do that, but you're still at the whim of a corpo and have no real legal right to that domain/email adresses.

Also it's kind of technical. Perfect for a nerd like me, but e.g. for my mum? Nope!

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue (as in the what ) is that people should always be able to have a fallback option for sending and receiving email that's not at the whim of Google, MS et al. SSN-xx-HERE@citizen.gov is a how , which may or may not be a good one. For one, here in France, the SSN isn't as important as it seems to be in the US, so its being public is probably less of an issue. This approach would still be bad for spam o…

edit to add I agree. the comment below is just how I think it would actually turn out. --- Avoiding the SSN issue, I think this still comes down to either forcing 3rd parties to host email accounts or gov hosting said email accounts. The former leads to "free" but not free email (like TurboTax) with the former or an outright loss in privacy with the latter.

I get the privacy implications, but I'd say it may not be that big of an issue in practice, if we consider that these accounts would mainly (only?) serve to contact the government.

There's of course the price issue, but that's the case in both situations (3rd party and gov hosting). Of course, at least in France, the government isn't known for always making the best choices cost-wise...

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#46
post #2

Email is our only reliable communication method between different organizations. I'm still of the opinion there should be public-option internet services. Everyone deserves an e-mail address that cannot be taken away from them without a court order.

Great idea on the paper but public goods management is often worse than what you find everywhere else.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#47
post #2

Email is our only reliable communication method between different organizations. I'm still of the opinion there should be public-option internet services. Everyone deserves an e-mail address that cannot be taken away from them without a court order.

This would also require everyone to have an email client to handle their email address though. I believe this the reason most folks have a gmail/outlook account because it's easy to set up and operate, not just because it gives them a unique-ish address?

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#48
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue is that since email is more and more required to interact with the Government services, they should also provide a usable alternative. Why have your citizens rely on random foreign services from which they may be cut off because a bot somewhere is having a bad day? In France at least, many people (mostly the elderly) are having a hard time using computers and such. Some Government agencies have dedi…

The post office ( La Poste) offer free emails, so there already is a non-foreign not-exactly-for-profit free email service out there. Plus all the ISPs also offer emails ( by default, you get an email with your plan, and on some ISPs you can't refuse it), but honestly that's just a terrible idea.

Of course, ISP email is a horrible idea, and I think the government should actively discourage people from using those for their services.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#49
post #40

Well, in Estonia, they have a different approach. 1. If you are a citizen or a resident, you get an ID card to use for every public service. It's just a smart card with a government PKI. 2. The public services provide an email account that can only be used within the e-government services. The card is used for accessing those services. 3. The email service accepts either identity number or registry number of the reci…

I always discover how Estonia is really amazing for lots of technology things. AFAIK they are by quite a margin the most advanced country in Europe when in comes to egovernment services. Moreover my (admittedly outside) impression is that they often go for technologically sound solutions not the ones which some large lobby organisation pushed for. This is particularly remarkable considering how small the country is, and in stark contrast to the mess that is egovernment services in Germany the richest country in Europe.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#50
post #28
post #15

The biggest blunder for me is that there were usable decentralized communication options before that were popular, but because of trying to monetize user's data FAANG started to tighten their grip on any decentralized solution, and I think they succeeded. They are already trying do to email the same thing they did to XMPP and RSS.

I’m not convinced that XMPP is actually such a great protocol. (I used it for many years.)

email likewise lives on "not so great" protocols.

"perfect is the enemy of good"

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