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Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

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Re: Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

#41

Post by killallcommies3 »

kergonath wrote: post #19
rafale wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is a republic, not a democracy. And for good reasons. Otherwise, politicians will try to one-up each other with promises of freebies. It's easy to win elections when you promise free healthcare, free education, free childcare,... The average person will vote in their immediate interest and not worry about the big picture. The big picture: nothing is free.

> The US is a republic, not a democracy. This pops up every now and then and is complete bullshit. A republic is a system of government with a parliament and an elected head of state. Being a republic and being a democracy are completely unrelated. There are republics that are oligarchies, dictatorships, or democracies. Similarly, there are monarchies that are oligarchies, dictatorships, or democracies. You can discu…

Wow, what fucked up high school did you learn your american/world history at?

Re: Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

#42

Post by syki »

DennisAleynikov wrote: post #10
vanviegen wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'incredibly irrelevant'? Wow...

yes, the opinions of 40million "more" americans are irrelevant in a country where 330million reside. its a big territory with a lot of different laws, borders and voting districts. gerrymandering is the enemy not the electoral college itself. in a similar vein people brought up that democrats got more individual votes and "won" the popular vote in 2016. again cool? but completely irrelevant.

It’s not irrelevant if a majority consistently feel their will is ignored. It’s not irrelevant if it leads to widespread discontent. The system set up 250 years ago is no longer sustainable. It’s needs to be changed.

Re: Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

#43

Post by syki »

phkahler wrote: post #8
syki wrote: post #3

Democratic senators represent 40 million more people than Republican senators and their agenda can't be passed. The last time Republican senators represented more than half the population was 1996. Rural, low population states have far too much power in the present system. This is not sustainable. I know Manchin is nominally a Democrat but it's not him that is blocking the legislation it is him and all 50 Republican…

>> Democratic senators represent 40 million more people than Republican senators and their agenda can't be passed. The last time Republican senators represented more than half the population was 1996. Rural, low population states have far too much power in the present system. This is not sustainable. Spending insane amounts of money like that is not sustainable. We are already looking at greater than 10 percent annua…

In a system that nominally purports to represent the will of the people it is not relevant that you are opposed to the spending. You are not the dictator of the country. The will of the majority is being thwarted consistently by a minority. This is not a sustainable way to run a representative form of government.

Re: Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

#45

Post by akmarinov »

defaultname wrote: post #37
rafale wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is a republic, not a democracy. And for good reasons. Otherwise, politicians will try to one-up each other with promises of freebies. It's easy to win elections when you promise free healthcare, free education, free childcare,... The average person will vote in their immediate interest and not worry about the big picture. The big picture: nothing is free.

The US is a democratic republic. Canada, the UK and a number of others are parliamentary democracy. They are ALL democracies, and I'm unaware of a single country on the planet that is a pure democracy. All are representative in some way. This bizarre "not a democracy" (for the oldest ongoing democracy) is not based in reality at all, but someone read it somewhere and just mindlessly repeats it. > It's easy to win ele…

The UK is a monarchy. All power comes from the Queen, not the people, she’s the sovereign.

At least on paper.

Re: Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

#46

Post by klarstrup »

DennisAleynikov wrote: post #23
thghtihadanacct wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont remember seeing the word 'free' in the posted article anywhere related to the paying for this bill. In fact, it clearly states the cost will come from taxes on the wealthy ... whom Manchin represents.

those damn wealthy... and their... running the country into the ground... darn Manchin can't get his hands out of the coffers long enough to see the people suffering outside!!!

curious to know where you were going with this comment

Re: Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

#47

Post by kgwxd »

rafale wrote: post #6
syki wrote: post #3

Democratic senators represent 40 million more people than Republican senators and their agenda can't be passed. The last time Republican senators represented more than half the population was 1996. Rural, low population states have far too much power in the present system. This is not sustainable. I know Manchin is nominally a Democrat but it's not him that is blocking the legislation it is him and all 50 Republican…

The US is a republic, not a democracy. And for good reasons. Otherwise, politicians will try to one-up each other with promises of freebies. It's easy to win elections when you promise free healthcare, free education, free childcare,... The average person will vote in their immediate interest and not worry about the big picture. The big picture: nothing is free.

> Nothing is free

That's what taxes are supposed to be for. What's the different if I pay 10k a year to an insurance company or the government for my family to have affordable access to healthcare? With the current system, I'm not even getting that, my entire family has never exceeded our crazy high deductibles. We have some form of control over who gets to run our government programs, no matter how small that form of control is, it's better than the zero control we have over the practices of private companies or the terrible choices private companies make about what insurance we get to even have in the first place.

Re: Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

#48

Post by mozman »

syki wrote: post #3

Democratic senators represent 40 million more people than Republican senators and their agenda can't be passed. The last time Republican senators represented more than half the population was 1996. Rural, low population states have far too much power in the present system. This is not sustainable. I know Manchin is nominally a Democrat but it's not him that is blocking the legislation it is him and all 50 Republican…

I am an independent and I do not support this bill. Can we please not make it sound so black and white?

Republicans aren’t evil, and neither are democrats. Both groups exist and have the right to fight for their agendas. Accept it.

Re: Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

#49

Post by mozman »

errcorrectcode wrote: post #22
cm2187 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of having two chambers is that they are selected in a different way, otherwise you might as well have only one. The senate is a way for smaller states to not be in a permanent structural minority and have no say on the direction of the country. Many countries have a similar system. Also even the house is not a proportional system. I know some people like proportional systems but let’s keep in mind they ofte…

Quoted post unavailable.

Yes. It’s their right to have a voice and it’s discriminatory to think otherwise.

Re: Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

#50

Post by syki »

mozman wrote: post #48
syki wrote: post #3

Democratic senators represent 40 million more people than Republican senators and their agenda can't be passed. The last time Republican senators represented more than half the population was 1996. Rural, low population states have far too much power in the present system. This is not sustainable. I know Manchin is nominally a Democrat but it's not him that is blocking the legislation it is him and all 50 Republican…

I am an independent and I do not support this bill. Can we please not make it sound so black and white? Republicans aren’t evil, and neither are democrats. Both groups exist and have the right to fight for their agendas. Accept it.

I have not painted anyone as evil. I suggest you reread what I wrote and take it at face value. It appears to me that you are projecting and making some assumptions about my views that aren’t supported by anything that I wrote. My post is about imbalances in the present system. It is my view and contention that the current federal system for apportioning senators and representatives is not sustainable. Everyone is free to advocate/fight for what they believe. I’ve not suggested otherwise. A system in which a minority viewpoint regularly impedes the legislative spending agenda of the majority is not sustainable long term. There is a power imbalance. The problem of this imbalance will exacerbate largely along rural/urban lines until something gives.
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