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I found that college fails to live up to being “The Great Equalizer”

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Re: I found that college fails to live up to being “The Great Equalizer”

#41

Post by pknomad »

jsiaajdsdaa wrote: post #25
mettamage wrote: post #9

> It’s already happening with companies like Lambda School focused on cultivating the next generation of software engineers by educating Bad example. Lambda School had some pretty bad press on HN about having lower completion rates than advertised, etc.

Why do people think self taught isnt viable

I’m self taught. I also don’t recommend this route for career since you miss out on opportunities or have to make up for credentialing through different ways.

Self teaching is viable for people who usually have talent, grit or often both.

Re: I found that college fails to live up to being “The Great Equalizer”

#42

Post by laurent92 »

Foobar8568 wrote: post #28

Because the required level is shit. And it has been downhill since the implementation of modern math and the rejection of math in the modern era or elitist path at school. We see it everywhere and especially in France or Switzerland. 10 years old native kids who can't read fluently. 15 years old who would write 1/2+1/3=2/5. They will keep this level of skills through the end of high school and master degree thanks to…

Kids up to 11 years old in France are graded in colors, not numbers or A-F grading.

Also, baccalaureat now includes has a “Grand oral”, an standup exam where women succeed much better, where presentation matters way more than depth, and where positive discrimination can take place without leaving a trail.

Re: I found that college fails to live up to being “The Great Equalizer”

#43

Post by graecea »

Foobar8568 wrote: post #28

Because the required level is shit. And it has been downhill since the implementation of modern math and the rejection of math in the modern era or elitist path at school. We see it everywhere and especially in France or Switzerland. 10 years old native kids who can't read fluently. 15 years old who would write 1/2+1/3=2/5. They will keep this level of skills through the end of high school and master degree thanks to…

On the other hand most people in the 50/60s would also fail the brevet (or baccalaureat for that matter). I can't speak for the math level but I do know that school in the 60s required you to learn every single prefecture and chef-lieu by heart in geography classes, and the name of every single bone and organ in biology classes. Sometimes modern reforms aren't all that bad.

Re: I found that college fails to live up to being “The Great Equalizer”

#44

Post by scsilver »

jsiaajdsdaa wrote: post #25
mettamage wrote: post #9

> It’s already happening with companies like Lambda School focused on cultivating the next generation of software engineers by educating Bad example. Lambda School had some pretty bad press on HN about having lower completion rates than advertised, etc.

Why do people think self taught isnt viable

Self taught in 2014 coming off an engineering degree with a decent background in engineering focused coding like arduinos, matlab, fluid dynamics simulations, and android on the side.

Should have went to my schools cs program instead if I wanted top career prospects.

Re: I found that college fails to live up to being “The Great Equalizer”

#45

Post by SilasX »

dvt wrote: post #33

> who you know than what you know Yeah, the world is a social place. There's a reason European royalty sent their kids to etiquette classes, and even these days fraternities and sororities have formals. That's how the world works. Someone that's surprised by this in their 20s or 30s was failed by their parents or immediate community and this has nothing to do with college. You need to be nice to people, you need to b…

Then that means the polices based around promoting college for everyone are equally naive.

Re: I found that college fails to live up to being “The Great Equalizer”

#46

Post by rjsw »

sokoloff wrote: post #19
Ologn wrote: post #5

I have worked in IT for a long time, but have taken night and weekend college classes over the years. I took a CS 3xx class with mostly college seniors a few years ago. Most were CS majors. Once a bunch of us were outside talking, and I said something about software version control. The person I was talking to said "what's that?" I asked the others if they knew what software version control was. None knew. I said, "y…

Is university meant to be vocational training or learning the unchanging fundamentals and how to learn new things in the field? I think it serves a better purpose to teach the underlying fundamentals and not to do vocational training. I don't think it's a serious flaw that you can graduate from a top university with a CS degree without ever having written SQL, react, or used revision control. To me, those are vocatio…

If I was teaching CS then I would ask students to use VCS so that I could see the stages they had gone through to get the submitted solution.

No different from expecting to see workings for maths homework.

Re: I found that college fails to live up to being “The Great Equalizer”

#47

Post by kiba »

fullshark wrote: post #38
dvt wrote: post #33

> who you know than what you know Yeah, the world is a social place. There's a reason European royalty sent their kids to etiquette classes, and even these days fraternities and sororities have formals. That's how the world works. Someone that's surprised by this in their 20s or 30s was failed by their parents or immediate community and this has nothing to do with college. You need to be nice to people, you need to b…

Pretty much everyone has incomplete world views in their 20s/30s and gets a reality check as they make decisions and reap the consequences. It's just a matter of what particular lessons your parents / schooling / experiences failed to flesh out until then.

Parents only one or two life experience, and likely in a narrow range dictated by socioeconomic circumstances. They also have their own baggage in addition to any wisdom gained, otherwise we would be listening to them more.

I have no advice on how to overcome the wisdom/experience gap and unrepaired damage accumulated over time.

Re: I found that college fails to live up to being “The Great Equalizer”

#48

Post by anticristi »

Veen wrote: post #31
RivieraKid wrote: post #18

A hugely important factors behind getting a job are: being likeable, looking good, not being weird, having a good sense of humor, etc. If you are in the bottom, say, 10% in these factors, employers will pick other candidates. And obviously, they won't tell you why.

Sadly this is true. I've had conversations with very smart people who can't find a job. They often attribute it to some hiring shortcoming or bias, and sometimes that's the case. But for a couple of these people the reason was obvious: they were not "presentable" and didn't have a personality that would enable them to function well in a team, i.e. they didn't dress properly, didn't look after their personal hygiene,…

Reminds me of my wife. :)

After her PhD, she was writing cover letters that were screaming "I hate the recruitment process".

One day, something clicked. Her next cover letter read like the first chapter in her bibliography. And one month later, she had too much work. :)

Re: I found that college fails to live up to being “The Great Equalizer”

#49

Post by [deleted] »

jsiaajdsdaa wrote: post #25
mettamage wrote: post #9

> It’s already happening with companies like Lambda School focused on cultivating the next generation of software engineers by educating Bad example. Lambda School had some pretty bad press on HN about having lower completion rates than advertised, etc.

Why do people think self taught isnt viable

[deleted]

Re: I found that college fails to live up to being “The Great Equalizer”

#50

Post by visaals »

hammock wrote: post #40

Who taught this man that college was The Great Equalizer? I was taught (for better or worse), by STEM grad parents no less, that the only college to strive for is an elite liberal arts education, and the purpose was to broaden my horizons and make connections. It explicitly wasn't to decide on a career and learn hard job skills.

My immigrant parents ingrained in me that if you work hard and get an education and a degree that you'll be set for life, which is what I now know as just part of the equation.

My teachers at my liberal arts focused high school definitely were more of your opinion of "broadening your horizons" and "being an educated member of the community"

My argument is mainly that not enough people know what they're getting into they take 10s or 100s of thousands of dollars in loans to get a degree

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