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I was part of a human subject research study without my consent

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Re: I was part of a human subject research study without my consent

#41

Post by justahuman74 »

progman32 wrote: post #33
dcow wrote: post #17

Can someone help me understand the ethical problem here? If I as an ordinary citizen contacted the webmaster with a similar worded email, the result would have been the same. The fact is that this “experiment” did not create any more or additional stress than is created for normal citizens/businesses simply engaging in normal legal activities. If submitting such a request has the potential to cause such undue stress,…

Perhaps you're making an assumption that "normal citizens" receive legal threats regularly? I can count the legal threats I've received on one hand, and I can assure you the days following them were, unfortunately, quite unpleasant (fortunately nothing came of it). Stress aside, part of the problem is the very real possibility of a subject wasting money on hiring a lawyer.

I've received plenty of voicemail from scammers who claim that I owe some agency money and that there will be penalties if I do not comply. That feels like a threat

Re: I was part of a human subject research study without my consent

#42

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

walrus01 wrote: post #12
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #8

> My name is Maya Mishina, and I am a resident of Novosibirsk, Russia. If i received such an email, I would mark it as spam and move on with my life. Why did this blogger take it seriously? Does she take other forms of spam so seriously? I do feel for her stress and anxiety, but I also have to question her mental ability to filter noise. Life must be quite stressful for her overall.

I see emails from cranks all the time and similarly have a do-not-respond policy to any of them, but at the same time, something like this is very slightly worrisome because it seems to be presenting the non-zero chance that some random person will sue you in your local court system. Which even if it is completely nonsensical and has no basis in law, could cost thousands of dollars to hire a lawyer and file a respons…

> very slightly worrisome

Recommend you don’t spend “ thousands of dollars to hire a lawyer and file a response” on something that you find very slightly worrisome.

Again, I think you, too, are being suckered into spam. Plenty of people fall for spam scams. It is nothing to be ashamed of. Think of all the people who fall for the fake IRS phone calls.

But learn from it: keep your guard up when you get emails, phone calls, or text messages from strangers.

Anything legally binding in the US will come to you via snail mail.

Re: I was part of a human subject research study without my consent

#43

Post by stormcode »

progman32 wrote: post #33
dcow wrote: post #17

Can someone help me understand the ethical problem here? If I as an ordinary citizen contacted the webmaster with a similar worded email, the result would have been the same. The fact is that this “experiment” did not create any more or additional stress than is created for normal citizens/businesses simply engaging in normal legal activities. If submitting such a request has the potential to cause such undue stress,…

Perhaps you're making an assumption that "normal citizens" receive legal threats regularly? I can count the legal threats I've received on one hand, and I can assure you the days following them were, unfortunately, quite unpleasant (fortunately nothing came of it). Stress aside, part of the problem is the very real possibility of a subject wasting money on hiring a lawyer.

Completely agree here. There was no reason the people running this couldn't have been clear about what they were doing and why up front. I've dealt with GDPR requests before and it is a hassle. Especially when someone does it for the purposes of causing that hassle.

Re: I was part of a human subject research study without my consent

#45

Post by MattGaiser »

progman32 wrote: post #33
dcow wrote: post #17

Can someone help me understand the ethical problem here? If I as an ordinary citizen contacted the webmaster with a similar worded email, the result would have been the same. The fact is that this “experiment” did not create any more or additional stress than is created for normal citizens/businesses simply engaging in normal legal activities. If submitting such a request has the potential to cause such undue stress,…

Perhaps you're making an assumption that "normal citizens" receive legal threats regularly? I can count the legal threats I've received on one hand, and I can assure you the days following them were, unfortunately, quite unpleasant (fortunately nothing came of it). Stress aside, part of the problem is the very real possibility of a subject wasting money on hiring a lawyer.

Does this qualify as a legal threat? It just seems like a reminder of existing laws, like one sees in all manner of contracts or Terms of Service. Like the "you are obligated to pay within X days" you see on your credit card statements.

Or even if there is a legal threat, do you take it seriously unless you know the source? People regularly get calls saying they are in violation of tax law and must pay.

Re: I was part of a human subject research study without my consent

#46

Post by s1artibartfast »

dcow wrote: post #17

Can someone help me understand the ethical problem here? If I as an ordinary citizen contacted the webmaster with a similar worded email, the result would have been the same. The fact is that this “experiment” did not create any more or additional stress than is created for normal citizens/businesses simply engaging in normal legal activities. If submitting such a request has the potential to cause such undue stress,…

The first ethical problem is that it is lying and deceitful. Is the bar so low that this is considered acceptable behavior for a moral and reputable person or institution?

Re: I was part of a human subject research study without my consent

#47

Post by walrus01 »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #42
walrus01 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see emails from cranks all the time and similarly have a do-not-respond policy to any of them, but at the same time, something like this is very slightly worrisome because it seems to be presenting the non-zero chance that some random person will sue you in your local court system. Which even if it is completely nonsensical and has no basis in law, could cost thousands of dollars to hire a lawyer and file a respons…

> very slightly worrisome Recommend you don’t spend “ thousands of dollars to hire a lawyer and file a response” on something that you find very slightly worrisome. Again, I think you, too, are being suckered into spam. Plenty of people fall for spam scams. It is nothing to be ashamed of. Think of all the people who fall for the fake IRS phone calls. But learn from it: keep your guard up when you get emails, phone ca…

> Anything legally binding in the US will come to you via snail mail.

yes it will, but a really determined person with an axe to grind will very often make known their intentions well in advance of that.

and no, it won't always come by snail mail, DMCA notices and similar with actual legal threats will arrive regularly via SMTP.

Re: I was part of a human subject research study without my consent

#48

Post by quadrifoliate »

A lot of people mocking the author or others for being scared and worried are basically blaming the victim here, and I would like them to stop.

The nature of legal practices in the USA is such that the answers to "Are you totally in the clear legally?" and "Will you lose significant amounts of money proving in random courts that you are in the clear legally?" are often both yes.

As a result, any researchers who send out thinly veiled legal threats as a "research experiment" are firmly in the wrong ethically, and should be called out by all the people to whom they have issued these veiled threats. Review boards that approved this experiment should be themselves subjected to an audit and potentially dissolved.

Re: I was part of a human subject research study without my consent

#49

Post by KennyBlanken »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #8

> My name is Maya Mishina, and I am a resident of Novosibirsk, Russia. If i received such an email, I would mark it as spam and move on with my life. Why did this blogger take it seriously? Does she take other forms of spam so seriously? I do feel for her stress and anxiety, but I also have to question her mental ability to filter noise. Life must be quite stressful for her overall.

> If i received such an email, I would mark it as spam and move on with my life. Why did this blogger take it seriously?

Because "I'm stupid and fell for a phishing email" doesn't grab eyeballs on Patreon/Twitter like "without my consent" does among the circles they run in.

> I also have to question her mental ability to filter noise. Life must be quite stressful for her overall.

We're talking about someone who is a furry and writes in multiple personalities on their blog.

I love how they brag about how their blog is seen on "the orange site" when most of their submissions are in the single digits.

Re: I was part of a human subject research study without my consent

#50

Post by JamesCoyne »

Going back to study homepage here https://privacystudy.cs.princeton.edu/ there is another update, now from the lead investigator, that includes the following paragraph:

"Second, our team is prioritizing a possible one-time follow-up email to recipients, identifying the academic study and recommending that they disregard the prior email. If that is feasible, and if experts in the email operator community agree with the proposal, we will send the follow-up emails as expeditiously as possible."

Did this study send automated emails in such volume that they can't work out how to send an apology without triggering spam protections? Or did they send email and not record it? What is he saying here?

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