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Fashion, art cycles are driven by counter-dominance signals of elite competition

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Re: Fashion, art cycles are driven by counter-dominance signals of elite competition

#41

Post by v_london »

optimalsolver wrote: post #4

Worth a read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circulation_of_elite

This concept is important to the way I think about crypto. It feels like a war between two elites (TradFi vs Crypto insiders and VCs), if crypto wins it it will not "democratize finance" when 90% of all Bitcoins have been mined in the first decade of the project's lifespan.

(This is not an attack against crypto in general, there are ways to design a cryptocurrency so it's equal to all participants regardless of the time they buy in, it's just that they fail to gain adoption because of a lack of VC funding and support from the crypto community, as neither can make a quick buck out of it)

Re: Fashion, art cycles are driven by counter-dominance signals of elite competition

#42

Post by oblak »

eightysixfour wrote: post #34
crucialfelix wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former hipster (and music subculture producer) I can attest that what drove us is not the desire to differentiate, but that the mainstream elite were lifeless bullshit and we wanted to express something new that only we could sense. We were being us, not "not them". Decades later, it's what the mainstream now sounds like. It always percolates up.

I won't suggest that you did not FEEL that way when you were doing it, but what you just wrote sounds exactly what I said in socially-coded language. > I can attest that what drove us is not the desire to differentiate, but that the mainstream elite were lifeless bullshit Here you state that the mainstream elite was "lifeless bullshit." > we wanted to express something new And you wanted to express NOT lifeless bulls…

Exactly. OP is the poster child for lack of self awareness

Re: Fashion, art cycles are driven by counter-dominance signals of elite competition

#43

Post by crawfordcomeaux »

canadaduane wrote: post #38
crawfordcomeaux wrote: post #14

This tracks with how I'm changing the art I embody/make. A driving intention I carry is to bring about a future where all people have the 0-payment option of living in a community where everyone's committed to meeting all needs while denying none, practicing a culture that's learned from and let go of cultural components of debt, capitalism, imperialism, colonialism, preferentialism (a culture of catering to preferen…

There is a bumper sticker that spells out "Coexist" with symbols from each of the major religions [1] and I liked it at first, because I identified strongly with the idea. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that there are people who see that symbol, and they don't see themselves in it--they don't see the Cross for example, and think, "Oh, a Christian like me!". Rather they see "Hippie-everything-and…

I think this is due to cultures normalizing trauma denial, as opposed to trauma healing. In the US, most mental health options cost money. Locking away healing behind money will always make thriving harder.

We need systems that are fun, healing, and don't caretake for trust trauma.

Re: Fashion, art cycles are driven by counter-dominance signals of elite competition

#44

Post by biomcgary »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #33
anm89 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole premise is broken to me so the more he tries to dig in it just feels like deeper and deeper bs to me. Jobs don't exist for the employee, wages exist for the employee. Jobs exist because the employer feels that the wage is a good trade for the person's time. The employee's perception of their contribution has essentially 0 importance in this interaction. A better definition of a bullshit job from the employe…

> Jobs don't exist for the employee, wages exist for the employee. This is a handwaving assertion. It happens to be strongly correlated with the way our society(ies) allocates labor, but is not something inherent to the labor/wage relationship. It's not hard to imagine a world in which people do things because those things matter to them, or are interesting to them, or both. Graeber didn't call them "Bullshit Jobs" b…

Unfortunately, in some cases, the "value" is things like: keeping headcount up, not dealing with a problem employee.

Re: Fashion, art cycles are driven by counter-dominance signals of elite competition

#45

Post by v_london »

crawfordcomeaux wrote: post #14

This tracks with how I'm changing the art I embody/make. A driving intention I carry is to bring about a future where all people have the 0-payment option of living in a community where everyone's committed to meeting all needs while denying none, practicing a culture that's learned from and let go of cultural components of debt, capitalism, imperialism, colonialism, preferentialism (a culture of catering to preferen…

Hey crawfordcomeaux, I noticed you've shared some interesting ideas about communities in Hacker News! I wonder if you have an opinion on whether remote working will change where and how people choose to live?

Cities still have a lot going for them by providing the best access to services (especially after covid is over), but one thing I see happening in the future is the establishment of "remote working villages" in smaller towns. Price and quality of housing will be the main selling point, but they'd also have access to nature and a good sense of community (in fact the projects could be self-organised and funded by the residents if you find the right people).

Re: Fashion, art cycles are driven by counter-dominance signals of elite competition

#46

Post by crawfordcomeaux »

germinalphrase wrote: post #18
crawfordcomeaux wrote: post #14

This tracks with how I'm changing the art I embody/make. A driving intention I carry is to bring about a future where all people have the 0-payment option of living in a community where everyone's committed to meeting all needs while denying none, practicing a culture that's learned from and let go of cultural components of debt, capitalism, imperialism, colonialism, preferentialism (a culture of catering to preferen…

There’s a lot of “not this” in your statement, but can you provide an example of your work that helps me understand what “this” remains?

"Meet all needs while denying none" to me means we need to first identify all of our needs (not wants, strategies, or rights, except to use them as signs pointing to underlying needs). I suspect applied category theory and constructor theory are two recent developments that could be useful for proving the needs of the human system.

"This" could be considered a culture of freely giving to meet people's needs, including the needs of the environments they live in.

Satisfying All Needs Through A narchogiving (SANTA)

I want a network of SANTA communities, offline and online, dedicated to meeting people's needs. The SANTANet.

Another example: I'm helping my hair to mat into ∀.

I've legally changed my name to Peacefully Revoking Consent To Be Governed For You And For All. My signature is " ∀" I'm also running for president on a platform of founding a new government to replace this one. The logo will include ∀

I'm nurturing a 3yo by empowering them to do whatever they want that won't kill them. This requires facing down and releasing old traumatic conditioning. I'm not perfect and need more people in my life to help them revolt against me when I slip into choosing from trauma mode. So a community where it's normal to run around naked in cold weather, regardless of age, is something I'm working toward.

Re: Fashion, art cycles are driven by counter-dominance signals of elite competition

#47

Post by crawfordcomeaux »

eightysixfour wrote: post #37
crawfordcomeaux wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel excitement over reading this. Would you be open to trying out some ideas to experiment with? I've been wondering if a framework for amplifying/accelerating evolution in bacterial cultures that's based in graph theory holds for culture in general. Also, trying to identify a sustainable model for a gift economy that can outperform debt economies.

If you're looking for a playground for this kind of thing (and can code), check out https://hash.ai/

Thanks! How's what you're doing different?

Re: Fashion, art cycles are driven by counter-dominance signals of elite competition

#48

Post by crawfordcomeaux »

eightysixfour wrote: post #22
crawfordcomeaux wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are some of these political changes?

Again, not finished with the book, but the central thesis of the book that large scaled human endeavors (and society as a whole following the agricultural revolution) does not require hierarchical organization. I do not believe I have made it to the meat of that thesis yet but, up to this point, I have not been convinced by his evidence that there were long-lasting, large-scale human organizations (think city scale a…

I haven't finished reading your reply. I got to this point:

"I do not believe I have made it to the meat of that thesis yet but, up to this point, I have not been convinced by his evidence that there were long-lasting, large-scale human organizations (think city scale and higher) that operated without some hierarchy."

There exists a natural hierarchy between the category of needs for humans to survive and the category of needs for humans to thrive. Nature provides enough.

Re: Fashion, art cycles are driven by counter-dominance signals of elite competition

#49

Post by jancsika »

eightysixfour wrote: post #34
crucialfelix wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former hipster (and music subculture producer) I can attest that what drove us is not the desire to differentiate, but that the mainstream elite were lifeless bullshit and we wanted to express something new that only we could sense. We were being us, not "not them". Decades later, it's what the mainstream now sounds like. It always percolates up.

I won't suggest that you did not FEEL that way when you were doing it, but what you just wrote sounds exactly what I said in socially-coded language. > I can attest that what drove us is not the desire to differentiate, but that the mainstream elite were lifeless bullshit Here you state that the mainstream elite was "lifeless bullshit." > we wanted to express something new And you wanted to express NOT lifeless bulls…

> The mainstream adopted it, and now there's a new generation of people who think that sound is mainstream lifeless bullshit and will create something that is NOT mainstream lifeless bullshit.

That doesn't follow.

1. a blues singer listens to mainstream

2. a blues singer hears a variety of blues influences on the mainstream

3. a blues singer says, "Hey great, we got some blues influences in the mainstream, let me try to add some more"

Re: Fashion, art cycles are driven by counter-dominance signals of elite competition

#50

Post by eightysixfour »

crawfordcomeaux wrote: post #47
eightysixfour wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're looking for a playground for this kind of thing (and can code), check out https://hash.ai/

Thanks! How's what you're doing different?

I'm not the gamedev above, just thought you may be interested.
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