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Kropotkin escapes from prison

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Re: Kropotkin escapes from prison

#41

Post by jltsiren »

sudosysgen wrote: post #34
jltsiren wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A centralized state ruled by the communist party is the commonly understood meaning. You almost certainly understood the intent before you mistook the explanation for a definition, dropped the word "communist", and argued against a literal interpretation of the words. Pre-revolution Bolsheviks argued that a centralized socialist state was a necessary step before achieving "true" communism. Kropotkin disagreed (one me…

Kropotkin was equally as opposed to war communism as a centrally planned economy and as opposed as he would have been to the NEP. I don't think that, after thinking for a few seconds, the regular person would arrive to the conclusion that the USSR was only communist because of the name of the ruling party. I also don't agree that, if people were introduced to society like the USSR with the only exception that they ha…

Words gain meaning from their usage. Instead of definitions, there are explanations and examples.

In the widely understood meaning, communism refers to a centralized state ruled by the communist party. Not by something called a communist party but by something that is a communist party.

The USSR was the canonical example of a communist state. States similar to it are generally seen as communist states, while states that are too different are not. Decentralized states otherwise similar to the USSR have never existed, so we don't know if people would consider them communist states.

Re: Kropotkin escapes from prison

#42

Post by d0gsg0w00f »

kingcharles wrote: post #4

That was great. While in jail I only had two serious opportunities to escape. The first an unscheduled incoming call from an embassy official meant I was brought to a secure area to use a special phone. It was right by the sally port [0] which normally has at least one door closed. Both were open. I could have run directly out to the street. The guards do not carry their guns inside the jail. The second was on a run…

What were you convicted of?

Re: Kropotkin escapes from prison

#43

Post by guerrilla »

sudosysgen wrote: post #29
design-material wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the varying/conflicting definitions of Communism here, and which one is the 'correct' one?

One is : a society that is not capitalist, ie, the means of production are owned by the workers. The other is, apparently, a centralized society run by people that call themselves communist.

> One is : a society that is not capitalist, ie, the means of production are owned by the workers.

Among living socialists and communists, I'd argue that that is actually their definition of "socialism", while their definition of "communism" is a moneyless, classless and stateless society, the idea being that the former could lead to the later if implemented. All three words have changed their meanings over the last 200 years though. To most people today, "communism" just means an authoritarian state ruled by a communist party with a centralized economy and "socialism" means widely different things to different people depending on where you live and what media you read.

Re: Kropotkin escapes from prison

#44

Post by tkgally »

The passage from Kropotkin’s memoir about his prison escape appeared in a Russian textbook I used in college [1]. It was much more interesting than typical foreign language textbook material.

Addendum: The Russian version of Kropotkin’s memoir, published in London in 1902, is at [2]. Thank you again, Internet Archive.

[1] https://www.worldcat.org/title/eyewitness-selections-from-ru...

[2] https://archive.org/details/zapiskirevoliuts00krop/page/342/...

Re: Kropotkin escapes from prison

#45

Post by seoaeu »

teh_klev wrote: post #24
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on how dangerous the criminal is. For a serial killer? Yeah, it might be.

Even a "suspected" serial killer isn't a serial killer until convicted and jailed as such (innocent until proven guilty) if they had access to the street to try and make their getaway.

The whole "innocent until proven guilty" entitles the accused to certain rights, but it doesn't mean everyone has to act like they are 100% definitely innocent. Taken to the extreme, that would mean you couldn't even arrest someone suspected to being a serial killer until they were convicted. Would make it a little difficult to make them stand trial...

Re: Kropotkin escapes from prison

#46

Post by aasasd »

elihu wrote: post #13

Today I learned that buoyant inflatable balloons have been around a lot longer than I thought.

Pretty sure floating under giant balloons was a vaguely regular pastime of wealthy people in the nineteenth century, and perhaps earlier.

Re: Kropotkin escapes from prison

#48

Post by LegitShady »

chmod775 wrote: post #19
kingcharles wrote: post #4

That was great. While in jail I only had two serious opportunities to escape. The first an unscheduled incoming call from an embassy official meant I was brought to a secure area to use a special phone. It was right by the sally port [0] which normally has at least one door closed. Both were open. I could have run directly out to the street. The guards do not carry their guns inside the jail. The second was on a run…

Many western countries don't even bother trying to prevent in escapes for some of their prisons. For instance in Germany about 20% of prisoners could run away daily - when they leave the prison to go to work or whatever ("open prisons"). But less than one in a hundred do. I probably don't need to tell you about some of the special Scandinavian prisons. Most people just want to get their sentence behind them, not beco…

a 1% escape rate seems egregious

Re: Kropotkin escapes from prison

#49

Post by throwaway81523 »

ashtonkem wrote: post #21
throwaway81523 wrote: post #9

Uncontracted title: "June 30, 1876: Peter Kropotkin Escapes from Prison, A Tale of Derring-Do on the Occasion of His Birthday". I had wondered who the heck Kropotkin was.

For those wondering, Kropotkin was a Russian anarchist philosopher. He’s most famous for “The Conquest of Bread”.

Thanks, I had heard of the philosopher though didn't know anything about him. What I was getting at though, was that the misleading title made me think Kropotkin was somneone who had escaped, like, yesterday. And I thought "Kropotkin who?". There has been some Biden-Putin theater in the news lately that I haven't paid attention to, so I thought Kropotkin being locked up must have something to with that.

TLDR: Dan G, can you fix the title to say Kropotkin escaped from prison in 1876 rather than just now? Thanks.

Re: Kropotkin escapes from prison

#50

Post by seer »

kingcharles wrote: post #4

That was great. While in jail I only had two serious opportunities to escape. The first an unscheduled incoming call from an embassy official meant I was brought to a secure area to use a special phone. It was right by the sally port [0] which normally has at least one door closed. Both were open. I could have run directly out to the street. The guards do not carry their guns inside the jail. The second was on a run…

As far as I know in the country where I live non violent criminals are treated much more leniently. They have “vacations” where they can go back to their families for holidays like Christmas and special events.

If they do run away they’ll get a much bigger sentence, so people just return so they can get it over with.

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