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Assange judge is 40-year ‘good friend’ of minister who orchestrated his arrest

declassifieduk.org

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Re: Assange judge is 40-year ‘good friend’ of minister who orchestrated his arrest

#41

Post by brbrodude »

gampleman wrote: post #12
rich_sasha wrote: post #3

Most voices in support of Assange seem to come from people with strong conviction that he is clearly a good guy (unsurprisingly). I don’t really have an opinion. Could someone provide a more impassioned / balanced list of pros and cons? From my vague point of view, I get that he is sort of a journalist (so should be protected), but also the stuff he leaked did go quite far, like borderline-espionage scale (or is that…

> States have a reasonable need to keep things secret, even against the immediate best interest of the citizens Do they? Perhaps this is the crux of the matter, as I would say that a democracy has no reason to keep anything secret against the best interests of its citizens. It may have some operational need of secrecy for things that are in the interest of its citizens (i.e. it's in my interest that nuclear launch co…

Not to mention, the secret that they wanted kept that started it all wasn't about "special secret things that should be secret". Jump out of the platonics debate, reality's truth is just ugly.

Re: Assange judge is 40-year ‘good friend’ of minister who orchestrated his arrest

#42

Post by sigmaprimus »

rich_sasha wrote: post #3

Most voices in support of Assange seem to come from people with strong conviction that he is clearly a good guy (unsurprisingly). I don’t really have an opinion. Could someone provide a more impassioned / balanced list of pros and cons? From my vague point of view, I get that he is sort of a journalist (so should be protected), but also the stuff he leaked did go quite far, like borderline-espionage scale (or is that…

This is all related to Edward Snowden the whistle blower, as far as funding goes, I believe KimDotCom was involved and the powers that be managed to crucify him already. I think if and when the US gets the opportunity to bring Assange to trial it will be in a closed court and the outcome will be already determined. Someone has to pay for exposing US government crimes.

PS Epstein didn't kill himself and where is the coverage for Ghislaine's trail? Is the story being buried because too many important men visited the infamous island? Shame the Johns!!!! #TimesUp #meToo

Re: Assange judge is 40-year ‘good friend’ of minister who orchestrated his arrest

#44

Post by dogleash »

rich_sasha wrote: post #3

Most voices in support of Assange seem to come from people with strong conviction that he is clearly a good guy (unsurprisingly). I don’t really have an opinion. Could someone provide a more impassioned / balanced list of pros and cons? From my vague point of view, I get that he is sort of a journalist (so should be protected), but also the stuff he leaked did go quite far, like borderline-espionage scale (or is that…

>impassioned / balanced list of pros and cons?

If I recall correctly, the thesis of wikileaks from their beginning was that leaks increase the cost and complexity to governments keeping their actions secret therefore providing a sort of forcing function to reduce both the number and scope of dishonorable actions carried out in secret.

Wikileaks is best understood as a force vector in a system. It's possible to have an opinion on the idea of leaking as a force for good. And that opinion could be conditional or even strong disagreement. The strength and direction of someone's opinion on that will determine how their opinion of Assange is further influenced. Influenced by the ancillary topics like sources of leaks, sources of funding, topics leaked about and editorial control exercised over what is released.

People's opinion on wikileaks in general can change after seeing who takes the "W"s and who takes the "L"s, and it's worthwhile to cultivate a feedback loop where your opinion of wikileaks is downstream from your opinion of leaking in general. Frankly, I don't care whether he is a good guy or a bad guy. I'm not having him around for Christmas, he's a force vector in a system. I have an opinion on that force vector.

It's worth also remembering that good/bad is different than legal/illegal, and that our standards for government includes the expectation of just due process even for those that are obviously monstrous criminals.

Re: Assange judge is 40-year ‘good friend’ of minister who orchestrated his arrest

#45

Post by sbuk »

When are we going to get the diplomat's wife that murdered the kid near Mildenhall? UK should reject all extraditions to the US until that piece of work is in a UK prison.

// Edit

Further, we should stop all extraditions to the US until they stop the barbaric practice of capital punishment.

Re: Assange judge is 40-year ‘good friend’ of minister who orchestrated his arrest

#46

Post by maccolgan »

kstenerud wrote: post #14
rich_sasha wrote: post #3

Most voices in support of Assange seem to come from people with strong conviction that he is clearly a good guy (unsurprisingly). I don’t really have an opinion. Could someone provide a more impassioned / balanced list of pros and cons? From my vague point of view, I get that he is sort of a journalist (so should be protected), but also the stuff he leaked did go quite far, like borderline-espionage scale (or is that…

This is not about how good or bad he is; it's about how the wheels of justice are continually being perverted by both the USA and the UK legal system (Scottish and British) in order to secure his extradition. A quick high-level list: - Bugging his conversations with his lawyers (the people involved have been charged in Spain and a trial is ongoing there, and some American nationals added to the Interpol list). - Prev…

This looks like something that would be done over an international mass murderer, but he is being tried for ... rape?

EDIT: Nvm, even if he is being tried for espionage, this looks disproportionate

Re: Assange judge is 40-year ‘good friend’ of minister who orchestrated his arrest

#47

Post by Ensorceled »

sildur wrote: post #30
IgorPartola wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a word to describe the effect of someone ending a comment in a phrase (in this case “according to the [mainstream] media”) that instantly invalidates the rest of the argument to a reader?

Yes, it’s “prejudging”.

This is true. But is "prejudging" bad? I use prejudging all the time:

I prejudge people who drop the n-word in casual conversation.

I prejudge people who use terms like "SJW" or "woke".

And, yes, I prejudge people who use "main stream media".

Re: Assange judge is 40-year ‘good friend’ of minister who orchestrated his arrest

#48

Post by kstenerud »

maccolgan wrote: post #46
kstenerud wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not about how good or bad he is; it's about how the wheels of justice are continually being perverted by both the USA and the UK legal system (Scottish and British) in order to secure his extradition. A quick high-level list: - Bugging his conversations with his lawyers (the people involved have been charged in Spain and a trial is ongoing there, and some American nationals added to the Interpol list). - Prev…

This looks like something that would be done over an international mass murderer, but he is being tried for ... rape? EDIT: Nvm, even if he is being tried for espionage, this looks disproportionate

No, he's being tried for espionage and hacking primarily (the actual indictment list is pretty long). The rape investigation was in Sweden, and has long since been dropped.

Re: Assange judge is 40-year ‘good friend’ of minister who orchestrated his arrest

#49

Post by Tarq0n »

maccolgan wrote: post #46
kstenerud wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not about how good or bad he is; it's about how the wheels of justice are continually being perverted by both the USA and the UK legal system (Scottish and British) in order to secure his extradition. A quick high-level list: - Bugging his conversations with his lawyers (the people involved have been charged in Spain and a trial is ongoing there, and some American nationals added to the Interpol list). - Prev…

This looks like something that would be done over an international mass murderer, but he is being tried for ... rape? EDIT: Nvm, even if he is being tried for espionage, this looks disproportionate

No that was the extradition to Sweden, this one is about espionage charges.

Re: Assange judge is 40-year ‘good friend’ of minister who orchestrated his arrest

#50

Post by Lhiw »

agd wrote: post #11
rich_sasha wrote: post #3

Most voices in support of Assange seem to come from people with strong conviction that he is clearly a good guy (unsurprisingly). I don’t really have an opinion. Could someone provide a more impassioned / balanced list of pros and cons? From my vague point of view, I get that he is sort of a journalist (so should be protected), but also the stuff he leaked did go quite far, like borderline-espionage scale (or is that…

In summary, it's as you say. Wikileaks has released a tonne of sensitive material which has often made the US look bad and revealed war crimes. The US wants to punish Assange as the leader of Wikileaks to deter others from doing the same. Most journalists and lawyers (although not all) believe that Wikileaks' activity is journalistic, and therefore that Assange can't be prosecuted for this activity. So the US is tryi…

> believe that Wikileaks' activity is journalistic,

Anyone claiming Wikileaks wasn't journalism is of the same scum of the earth that claim PV isn't journalism. It's disgusting.

The whole idea that journalism is an identity is fucks my asinine. You practice journalism, it's an act. You don't need any belief, there is an objective reality and verifiable acts that define whether journalism has taken place.

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