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How do you fix a stroad?

strongtowns.org

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Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#41

Post by Gigachad »

rdtwo wrote: post #36
jimmaswell wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big, climate controlled, pedestrian-only space packed full of different kinds of shops isn't pedestrian-friendly? Give me a break. On the subjective side I think a lot of them look pretty nice.

American malls are islands. Europes malls tend to be hearts of networks

Australia has both, we have the multi level island malls surrounded by mega roads, and then inner CBD retails streets which are surrounded by high density residential and office space which are actually great for pedestrian access as you can easily get from your current location to the area.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#42

Post by throw0101a »

andbberger wrote: post #5
jimmaswell wrote: post #3

I find the premise questionable that stroads are bad. Give a stroad good sidewalks, crosswalks with signs that light up when you hit a button, and a bike path and everybody is well-served. That or just let car people (majority) have these areas that are good for cars and let the anti car people have their crowded little streets with no parking elsewhere.

it's not people are anti-car as much as they are pro-human. the majority of people (in the states) would not be car people if they had alternatives. stroads are hostile to anyone not in a car. making pedestrians hit a beg button to cross street is just reinforcing that they are trespassing on land that is not for them.

I once ran across the observation that the amount 'jay walking' that occurs on a street is an indication of how much that street is pedestrian-friendly. More criss-crossing means people feel safer just moseying over to the other side.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#43

Post by teruakohatu »

jimmaswell wrote: post #35
joe_the_user wrote: post #22

Overall, it seems simpler to say that malls, not stroads are the problem. Malls will never be pedestrian friendly. Mall will never be aesthetically pleasant. Roads going by malls are usually stroads and might be made somewhat better. But that's such a trivial question compared to the pox that is mall urban organization that I really don't care.

A big, climate controlled, pedestrian-only space packed full of different kinds of shops isn't pedestrian-friendly? Give me a break. On the subjective side I think a lot of them look pretty nice.

I think they are talking about the outdoor style malls you with huge parking lots that most people will drive from one store to the other, rather than walking.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#44

Post by beaconstudios »

joe_the_user wrote: post #22

Overall, it seems simpler to say that malls, not stroads are the problem. Malls will never be pedestrian friendly. Mall will never be aesthetically pleasant. Roads going by malls are usually stroads and might be made somewhat better. But that's such a trivial question compared to the pox that is mall urban organization that I really don't care.

Stroads are everywhere though and make up so much of America's car infrastructure? Even if malls are a blight, their impact is much much smaller than the stroad. They're not a piece of civic infrastructure that fundamentally shapes the layout of, and interaction with, society.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#45

Post by bee_rider »

jimmaswell wrote: post #3

I find the premise questionable that stroads are bad. Give a stroad good sidewalks, crosswalks with signs that light up when you hit a button, and a bike path and everybody is well-served. That or just let car people (majority) have these areas that are good for cars and let the anti car people have their crowded little streets with no parking elsewhere.

Stroads are a word that strongtowns seems to have recently successfully popularized, so it is hard to find actual measurements about "stroads." However, I was able to find a little research indicating that narrower streets are correlated to fewer/less damaging traffic accidents. There's a conference paper "Narrower Lanes, Safer Streets," or have a look at these blogs that talk about it:

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2015/05/27/compelling-evidence-t...

https://thecityfix.com/blog/bigger-isnt-always-better-narrow...

Honestly I'm a bit surprised how little this has been measured. I mean obviously setting up experiments would be difficult, but you'd think more natural experiments would occur as different places try to fit weird geometries...

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#46

Post by bee_rider »

"Stroad" seems to be a recently popularized by strongtowns. I'm curious if anyone has actually managed to measure this sort of thing? My suspicion is that it "stroads" are essentially to-wide streets, and it should be possible to find research indicating that streets should be narrower, because widening them causes people to drive too fast. I was only able to find the following, coverage, though:

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2015/05/27/compelling-evidence-t...

https://thecityfix.com/blog/bigger-isnt-always-better-narrow...

They both seem to fundamentally go back to a single conference paper, "Narrower Lanes, Safer Streets." I don't know those blogs, and a single conference paper is -- I mean the paper is probably good but, hard to build a case on just one paper.

What is up with this? Computer engineers produce reams and reams of papers. Where are the civ.Es hiding their secrets?

edit: changed slightly, original text seemed unintentionally dismissive.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#47

Post by josephcsible »

ben-schaaf wrote: post #26
josephcsible wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bleh. Such an us vs them mentality. Doesn't the "us vs. them" mentality come from the fact that most of Strong Towns' ideas will make life worse for everyone who needs to drive, without giving most of them an alternative to driving?

The whole point is to provide better alternatives to driving such that most people don't need to drive. Having better alternatives to driving also makes driving better as you get less congestion, licensing standards can be raised, there's more money for road maintenance, well designed roads are simply better to drive on, etc.

> such that most people don't need to drive

I disagree that they'll accomplish this for most people. In particular, what about all of the people who live in suburbs but work in the city?

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#48

Post by JetAlone »

jimmaswell wrote: post #3

I find the premise questionable that stroads are bad. Give a stroad good sidewalks, crosswalks with signs that light up when you hit a button, and a bike path and everybody is well-served. That or just let car people (majority) have these areas that are good for cars and let the anti car people have their crowded little streets with no parking elsewhere.

Anti-stroadism is a deluded locus of control for detached intellectuals that will lead us into the fresh horrors of a dark age yet unseen. Without the strong stroadlandians to remind us of the importance of danger and adversity, we would have small walking communities of sensitive, dependent pedestrians who gradually get cut off from one another as the roads fall into disrepair.

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#49

Post by pcmoney »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #34

As a fun note, I immediately recognized the location of this stroad pictured. I live relatively close to it. There's been a lot of new development there recently. They just redeveloped a large chunk of the area including launching a major Costco and an Amazon Fresh. I would honestly say it's a pretty healthy travel thoroughfare. It gets backed up during rush hour, but even interstates do here, so that's not unusual.

How is it walking or biking? Or is it only healthy if you’re in a couple thousand pound armored living room on wheels?

Re: How do you fix a stroad?

#50

Post by beaconstudios »

bee_rider wrote: post #46

"Stroad" seems to be a recently popularized by strongtowns. I'm curious if anyone has actually managed to measure this sort of thing? My suspicion is that it "stroads" are essentially to-wide streets, and it should be possible to find research indicating that streets should be narrower, because widening them causes people to drive too fast. I was only able to find the following, coverage, though: https://usa.streetsb…

the argument is that streets and roads serve fundamentally different purposes and thus have different design goals, and stroads do both and thus fail at both. Roads are for transit, getting cars a long distance between interest points, and streets are for navigating within a point of interest like a neighbourhood. Roads want to optimise for higher cruising speed and streets are to optimise for parking, mixed-use with pedestrians and cyclists, etc. You can't combine these things - it's not a measurement divide but a categorical one.

it is a made up word, but all words are made up.

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