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The “designers should code” bullshit and a not so new idea

intenseminimalism.com

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Re: The “designers should code” bullshit and a not so new idea

#41

Post by scelerat »

People working on teams where each occupies some vertical niche -- designer, developer, etc. -- should have a solid understanding of the territory their own niche abuts.

I don't think visual web designers should necessarily be able to fully and efficiently implement their designs, but they should have a general understanding of how their designs will be implemented. IMO part of a web designer's educational experience should include interactive design (not just art and print design), HTML and even a programming class.

Likewise, front end engineers should have some exposure to art, design, maybe even have taken some drawing classes, and definitely be able to operate Photoshop and Illustrator (or whatever the predominant tool is).

You don't hire an architect who doesn't already know something about contracting, materials, and geology, even if they're not going to be driving the bulldozer. Same goes for web design.

Re: The “designers should code” bullshit and a not so new idea

#43

Post by carbon8 »

Design and art have always required technical knowledge of tools and the medium, and knowing HTML and CSS is no different.

Web application design (which is distinct from brochure web design or print design) has unique conventions and constraints, and web application designers absolutely must have a deep understanding of both. There are header nav bars. The branding with the link to the root path is in the upper left, user info/settings are in the upper right. HTML and CSS are structured as boxes within boxes. Main content areas contain the primary content, sidebars contain secondary content. Components are modular. Browsers have significant variation in how they render things, and viewport sizes vary dramatically. We have views and forms, GETs and POSTs. Resources are nested, with one URL per resource. Browsers have different levels of CSS support, leading to a focus on progressive enhancement and graceful degradation.

Every single time I've ever worked on a web application with a designer who didn't know HTML/CSS or a web designer who only does brochure sites, they stumble on these issues, and we end up with inflexible designs that have usability issues and are a pain or impossible to implement. Designers who don't know HTML/CSS create drag in a startup environment. It forces others to spend time and energy explaining how the web works and what the conventions are.

Re: The “designers should code” bullshit and a not so new idea

#44

Post by Rusky »

duopixel wrote: post #37

Some of the best designers I've had the pleasure of working with didn't know how to write HTML or CSS. The did, however, deeply understand the constraints of web design. Knowing HTML and CSS gives you a de facto understanding of the constraints, but you don't actually have to write it in order to become a competent web designer. I also think most people are thinking from the perspective of the scrappy start-up, where…

I think this post is at least partially misunderstanding the assertion that designers should be able to code. The point is not that they should be a coder, just that they should, like you said, "deeply understand the constraints of [their field]."

Someone who comes up with a good design that can't or won't be implemented may as well have not designed it in the first place- but if they understand the constraints on their design they can come up with something optimal that can actually exist.

Re: The “designers should code” bullshit and a not so new idea

#45

Post by cesarsalazar12 »

talmand wrote: post #42
leon_ wrote: post #31

Guys, cool down. Writing HTML is not coding.

A great deal of people do refer to HTML markup as coding. It's debatable if it should be called that but in many cases when someone says "coding" the context is HTML and CSS.

Exactly! HTML is way different from a programming language. HTML is a language that describes structure, not logic. The web is all about structuring information in a way people can make sense out of it. Any web designer that is not able to use a language to provide structure, is not at the to of their profession.

Re: The “designers should code” bullshit and a not so new idea

#46

Post by kreek »

He buries the lead at the end. It's good for designers to know how to code but they shouldn't spend so much time coding that they can't grow their design skills.

Yes some people are more creative, but who said being a good programmer had nothing to do with creativity? Along the same lines design is not art. I've seen many talented artists who were average designers because they couldn't, or wouldn't, blend in some structure to their work.

I started out as a book designer, then web hit and I became web designer. Although I admit the early days of table based layout made me want to run back to QuarkExpress. Flash arrived on the scene and sites like the Remedy Project inspired me to learn to code. Long story short, I now know OOP inside out and, thanks to hacker news, have dived into in functional programming.

I spend very little time designing anymore. I'm still miles ahead of my fellow developers, and I tend to be more creative in my problem solving. That said I still run to them (or stackoverflow) when a hardcore programming problem pops up.

Becoming an expert at anything takes time, if you're a Jack of all Trades one of those trades will suffer. I've chosen programming because I like building things, plus the pay's not bad. I'm still 'designing' it just happens to be with code.

Re: The “designers should code” bullshit and a not so new idea

#48

Post by twfarland »

The dichotomy of 'design vs code' feels artificial to me.

The activities of designing and of coding overlap extensively. Both require a clarity of communication, a deep consideration of the purpose of the thing to be designed/built, and a sense of taste.

If in the habit of extracting general principles from concrete examples, coders can become better coders by learning aspects of design and vice versa.

Many of the concepts in a 'coder' book like 'How to design programs,' for example, are readily applicable to UX design, e.g: refactoring, wishful thinking, generalisation of purpose, and the control of complexity by use of 'black boxes.'

Likewise, a 'designer' book like 'The design of everyday things' is full of stuff that applies usefully to the activity of coding, e.g: the importance of meaningful feedback, and of ensuring a clear mapping between expected actions and their outcomes.

These correlations aren't everywhere to be found, though. But I've always found interdisciplinary people to have the freshest approaches.

Re: The “designers should code” bullshit and a not so new idea

#50

Post by carbon8 »

mgkimsal wrote: post #3

Yay - designer/developer "teams". Sounds fair enough, but it's gotta work both ways. You as a designer need to be flexible. If I as a developer say "that can't be done within the given time/budget/constraints", you'll need to rework or rethink some of your precious design. I as a developer need to sometimes do some more research to make sure something can, in fact, be done, instead of relying on 10 year old preconcep…

The problem is that in a startup environment, needing to constantly explain how web application design works can waste significant time and energy, decreasing morale and impacting momentum. It's a drag, and an unnecessary one.

Web applications don't need to have heavily designed UI elements. The kind of designer that's useful for a web application is one who has a deep understanding of the unique constraints and conventions of web application design, not someone who is a whiz is Illustrator or screen printing.

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