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Player of Games

arxiv.org

41–50 of 242 posts

Re: Player of Games

#41
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the protagonist wasn't nearly as talented as the culture AIs (even the ones that are not all that powerful)?

I don't think a full Culture Mind is present but he outstrips his spacecraft's ability to help him with preparation in later stages of the competition. I clearly remember this.

At least that is what the ship (SC) wants him to think.

Re: Player of Games

#42
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything the caliber and lore of the series gives the project an incredible amount of gravitas. Plus the scheme is just plain beautiful in my opinion.

You may find this Iain Banks interview enjoyable. TLDR search for "gravitas" ;-) https://www.theguardian.com/books/2000/sep/11/iainbanks-scie...

Brilliant. "Absolutely No You-No-What" is fantastic.

Re: Player of Games

#43
post #7

If you are interested in this, I maintain a list of boardgame-solving related research at https://github.com/captn3m0/boardgame-research , with sections for specific games. This looks really interesting. It would be a good project to test this against a general card-playing framework to easily test it on a variety of imperfect-information games based on playing cards.

I tried my hand once or twice at (re-)implementing board games [0], so that I could run some common "AI" algorithms on the game trees.

What tripped me up every time is that most board games have a lot of "if this happens, there is this specific rule that applies". Even relatively simple games (like Homeworlds) are pretty hard to nail down perfectly due to all the special cases.

Do you, or somebody else, have any recommendations on how to handle this?

[0] Dominion, Homeworlds and the battle part of Eclipse iirc.

Re: Player of Games

#44
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why this is so depressing? You can still play against humans though. It's probably more fun anyways than playing versus a computer as in most games, isn't it?

Like in first-person shooters; it's no fun to play against bots with perfect aim and superhuman reflexes.

Then don't, there are plenty of humans available to play chess (or first person shooters) with.

Re: Player of Games

#45
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why this is so depressing? You can still play against humans though. It's probably more fun anyways than playing versus a computer as in most games, isn't it?

Like in first-person shooters; it's no fun to play against bots with perfect aim and superhuman reflexes.

But it is fun to play against well-tuned bots. That's one of the ways you can improve.

Re: Player of Games

#47
post #41
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think a full Culture Mind is present but he outstrips his spacecraft's ability to help him with preparation in later stages of the competition. I clearly remember this.

At least that is what the ship (SC) wants him to think.

Indeed. (spoiler following) The plot basically revolves around SC manipulating both Gurgeh and the Empire of Azad in an ever bigger and complex game than the one in the book. Given how Banks describes the Minds in other books it would be extremely curious if they wouldn't crush any biological player in any normal game the same way chess computers crush humans these days. But, it is possible that a more limited mind like the security drone could be outstripped by Gurgeh. In one of the other books they do mention that "smaller" machines like environmental suits and small drones get more limited minds than full starships as it would be cruel to put a fully capable Mind in such a limited body.

Re: Player of Games

#48
post #3

This is clearly part of DeepMind's long-game plan to achieve world domination through board game mastery. Naming the new algorithm after the book is a real tip of their hand... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Player_of_Games

Pretty amazing book. I wish I could play a board game like that as well.

I second this, it was excellent. I've only read a few Banks books, but this was my favorite.

Re: Player of Games

#49
post #2

I really like seeing references to the Culture series when naming things: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Player_of_Games

Allusions are fun and all, but I disagree. These are important problems that a lot of people have put their whole careers into researching. Silly names like these lack gravitas.

Sorry, to explain the joke. The ships name themselves, and when they pick jokey names they're often mocked by the humans (which are in every way essentially ants to the spaceships) for not having enough gravitas. So the ships start naming themeselves things like the "Death-ray 9000 super-killer deluxe", to essentially take the piss.

Funnily enough you can see the exact same effect in principal game-engineers or computer-hacking.

Re: Player of Games

#50
post #42
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may find this Iain Banks interview enjoyable. TLDR search for "gravitas" ;-) https://www.theguardian.com/books/2000/sep/11/iainbanks-scie...

Brilliant. "Absolutely No You-No-What" is fantastic.

Nothing can top "Ultimate Ship the Second".
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