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The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

mcc.gse.harvard.edu

41–50 of 254 posts

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#41
post #14
post #4

It's a bit paradoxical. I have a tech company and most staff want to come to the office 1 day a week. Getting them to come is very tough. Many of my staff and friends don't want to have kids, make no effort to find a partner and find all sorts of excuses. Netflix, the internet and these things are part of the problem, but I have no clue what the solution is. There is only one way to not be lonely - be with people who…

They need stable, actionable futures. Homes they can afford to own, communities they can raise kids in, an environment that won't go up in flames; they need systems that have their back.

I'm sympathetic to the later part, but first part not what they want.

They want the dynamism of being able to change jobs and careers, they all want the opportunity for career progression which for the most part isn't there (it's always been competitive).

That means more risk and all the things that come along with it.

I think even 'remote work' will have a serious of consequences we're not ready to accept, which is that it will make workers even more fungible.

If someone literally can't show up for work ... then they're generally going to be seen as more easily replaced or changed around.

We need to fixing housing costs badly though.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#42
post #4

It's a bit paradoxical. I have a tech company and most staff want to come to the office 1 day a week. Getting them to come is very tough. Many of my staff and friends don't want to have kids, make no effort to find a partner and find all sorts of excuses. Netflix, the internet and these things are part of the problem, but I have no clue what the solution is. There is only one way to not be lonely - be with people who…

Do the positions your staff work promote having enough time and emotion left after a days work to go out and pursue those things? Does your staff have enough financial stability to make impulsive but fun decisions? How do you quantify your answers to these questions? By asking your staff directly? During staff meetings or Zoom calls? Or by actually watching the decisions they make and the problems they face?

Many jobs out there use up workers like a resource. And the well is running dry.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#43
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t this depend on having friends who are off the internet too? In the before times, I’d go to get drinks with friends and often found they were chronically distracted. If there’s a lull in conversation they pull out their phones. I go to the bathroom and come back and they’re swiping through Tinder. I got married before the dating apps got popular so I never went down that particular rabbit hole, but I feel like…

You can always find new friends once you start meeting people off internet. Tbh I find purely online friendships not to last long, especially now as an adult.

This. Just hit some random shit on Meetup.com that looks interesting which bridges the gap to the real world.

Online social is a complete shit show. You’re spending time with peoples outward persona not real people.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#44
post #4

It's a bit paradoxical. I have a tech company and most staff want to come to the office 1 day a week. Getting them to come is very tough. Many of my staff and friends don't want to have kids, make no effort to find a partner and find all sorts of excuses. Netflix, the internet and these things are part of the problem, but I have no clue what the solution is. There is only one way to not be lonely - be with people who…

I could be wrong, but do you think it's possible that your staff actually fall in the 39% bucket? That is, they either don't feel loneliness or feel too little of it to do anything about it.

Otherwise I agree with you on dealing with loneliness.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#45
One of the things I blame is the decline of youth culture. When I was in high school and college (late 90s - early 2000s) we had all these youth "scenes" like goths, ravers, gen-X style hippies, garage band scenes, hip hop, underground punk, and so on.

The standard formula was music plus style plus some kind of group bonding activity like dancing, playing music, going outside, etc. Drugs were pretty often involved too, but not always and even in drug-heavy scenes like raves there was a sizable "straight edge" faction.

This was basically how all the young people who were not "jocks" or into other official activities (of which there is a limited selection) would meet one another and socialize.

Maybe I just don't know, but this stuff really seems dead. I've spent some time digging out of curiosity and I've never found a hint of anything similar today. It seems like it all moved online into social media and now instead of dancing all night in warehouses or going camping to hear a band people just stare at phones and have their brains sucked out by "engagement" (addiction) maximizing algorithms.

So social media seems like one thing that killed it, but I also think police crackdowns motivated by standard issue drug war freakouts were a factor too. (Irony: the replacement, algorithmically curated social media, is much more addictive than a lot of the drugs I remember people doing back then.)

So now there's the people who are into the mainstream standard stuff and... what? Social media? 4chan?

I shudder to think of who I would be without rave culture in late high school and college. I'd probably be dead of suicide or one of these hate-ridden incels or pajama Nazi CHUD types. I'd put my money on suicide.

Edit: my philosophy with my kids is that screen time is okay as long as their lives are full of a lot of other things. I don't think screens are the problem per se. I was also into hacker stuff when I was a kid and spent a lot of time in front of screens. The problem is the absence of enriching social activities, not the presence of a screen. I do selectively ban certain things though, like YouTube, that are particularly toxic.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#46

people are married to work, get their gratification from porn and buying things downside: no one to talk to

> buying things I definitely see this.

I currently struggle to buy anything that would have a positive effect on my happiness. I got a motorcycle two years ago, and while I do pretty few miles, it provided quite some happiness (going on Saturday rides with a friend, general added feeling of "freedom" because of having a way to escape the city and also do short trips I usually would fret about which public transport to take or if it makes sense to use carsharing). Another thing that comes to mind is my Vacuum cleaner - I spent money on a cordless Dyson and I can clean my small flat in 15 minutes now (robot doesn't make sense due to the size).

I have the budget to buy some live improving stuff, but I don't see anything.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#47
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They need stable, actionable futures. Homes they can afford to own, communities they can raise kids in, an environment that won't go up in flames; they need systems that have their back.

I'm sympathetic to the later part, but first part not what they want. They want the dynamism of being able to change jobs and careers, they all want the opportunity for career progression which for the most part isn't there (it's always been competitive). That means more risk and all the things that come along with it. I think even 'remote work' will have a serious of consequences we're not ready to accept, which is…

> If someone literally can't show up for work ... then they're generally going to be seen as more fungible.

It depends of the company culture.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#48

I had a hunch going in that the authors would fail to break down how much more lonely the poor have been compared to the wealthy. Sadly, I was correct. They really didn't mention wealth or inequality once. Class pervades every aspect of America's problems so deeply that it's almost invisible, but that is no excuse to ignore it. Especially when we're talking about Harvard research, and especially when we're talking ab…

Poor people are often forced to have roommates, live with their parents, or otherwise maintain relationships for economic reasons. I wouldn't expect poor people to necessarily be more lonely.

Ah yes, nothing like being forced to live with strangers and parents to solve loneliness. Seriously?

If you care to look, there is actually a lot of research pointing that the pandemic affected the poor's ability to voluntarily socialize compared to the wealthy. If you think about it, it's incredibly obvious.

And yet these authors didn't mention the idea once. That's unconscionable, if unsurprising.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#49
I'm a young GenZ adult. Just woke up and got depressed seeing this headline because it reinforces what I've experienced & felt. Loneliness is inherent to the human body and soul (unless perhaps we get Neuralink or AI friends someday). I am deeply sad over all the social fantasies I never had and probably never will now that I'm a working adult.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#50
post #4

It's a bit paradoxical. I have a tech company and most staff want to come to the office 1 day a week. Getting them to come is very tough. Many of my staff and friends don't want to have kids, make no effort to find a partner and find all sorts of excuses. Netflix, the internet and these things are part of the problem, but I have no clue what the solution is. There is only one way to not be lonely - be with people who…

I've chatted with a couple of people who feel that their country (USA) is descending into chaos, and they don't feel like investing in a doomed future. I agree with the general feeling, but I'm trying to use it to motivate myself to have more fun.

As to why people feel doomed: Republicans are putting the most faithful trump zealots in places to most influence the next elections. Remember that the Republicans believe the previous election was stolen.

This gives them motivation and means to throw out results where Democrats win.

If they do that, I'm not sure if the country will split or fall into civil war.

The utter insidious evil of the election theft lie from trump is going to destroy the USA by removing any trust in elections.

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