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Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

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Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#41

Post by hef19898 »

q-base wrote: post #16

Kudos! As oblivious bystander and no real tennis-knowledge apart from how the game is played, how much pressure will this put on China? How much weight does WTA carry? It will no doubt cause some media coverage no matter the outcome.

The better question is how much pressure does it put on other organisations when it comes to bowing to China? Or any other rich, not-so-democratic country like Saudi or Qatar, or...

Because now the WTA, by no means a small sports organisation, did what the IOC, FIFA, NBA, film studios,... didn't have the courage to do. And these orgs now don't have any excuse of doing nothing about those human rights abuses.

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#42

Post by kstenerud »

q-base wrote: post #16

Kudos! As oblivious bystander and no real tennis-knowledge apart from how the game is played, how much pressure will this put on China? How much weight does WTA carry? It will no doubt cause some media coverage no matter the outcome.

China will ignore it and start their own tennis authority, inviting all of the belt-and-road nations to partake. In a way we're seeing the birth of a new "Warsaw Pact vs NATO" kind of thing.

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#43

Post by necovek »

ErikVandeWater wrote: post #36
deltaci wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's revenue already lost. No tournament was happening since October 2020 already. Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamzagoria/2020/07/23/wta-to-c...

Then when China eases Covid restrictions they'll quietly add China back to the schedule like nothing happened.

Unfortunately, "China" holds grudges (in quotes, because I suspect it might not even be the government, but different officials wanting to appear as good citizens to the government, and definitely not Chinese people), so it won't be that easy: Simon will likely need to step down (though he's kinda being diplomatic in only "wanting answers", not putting particular blame on anyone, but he's still pretty adamant).

Witness NBA-Houston Rockets case which caused Houston Rockets games to be blacked out for 15 months even though Morey moved on from Houston late in 2020 after tweeting in support of Hong Kong protests early in the year.

What did CCTV do? Ban 76ers NBA games who are the current employer for Morey.

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#44

Post by burntbridge »

jarym wrote: post #10
reunification wrote: post #6

As a Chinese-American residing in the US, I really have to smile when white people think they can "stick it" to China. Westerners, in particular white people, are threatened by Asian faces gaining power in the Far East, and so they demonize my country and countrymen and make up ridiculous stories about how much of a scary Orwellian hellhole China is. And of course they indulge in their white savior narrative and try…

I’m not white and I don’t believe it’s right that a woman should be politically silenced for speaking out about sexual abuse she encountered. Perhaps not everything is about ‘sticking it’ to your homeland.

Actually no evidence she has been silenced.

You I'm sure do not want to 'stick it' to China, but you are perhaps unwittingly playing your little part in that process.

Ironic also how the comment yours above has been censored for not towing the Western line.

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#45

Post by burntbridge »

kuaile wrote: post #13
reunification wrote: post #6

As a Chinese-American residing in the US, I really have to smile when white people think they can "stick it" to China. Westerners, in particular white people, are threatened by Asian faces gaining power in the Far East, and so they demonize my country and countrymen and make up ridiculous stories about how much of a scary Orwellian hellhole China is. And of course they indulge in their white savior narrative and try…

> do a rapid reunification Taiwan as soon as possible and risk the economic damage Did you mean to say "hostile takeover of an independent nation"? China hasn't controlled Taiwan in recent history.

Taiwan is not recognized as an independent nation by the U.S.

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#46

Post by necovek »

jeswin wrote: post #33
necovek wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will probably turn into a non-event in China. As long as other entertainment is available, this is likely to be nothing but a blip. People do not rise for entertainment, but only when they are seriously affected in their lives. Or when unfairness accumulates enough that they had enough — this will happen at some point in China, if they don't tone it down. But protesting today (and in the past) is a form of luxury:…

> Or when unfairness accumulates enough that they had enough — this will happen at some point in China, if they don't tone it down. CCP has built a dissent management stack all the way from early indoctrination to continuous surveillance to Tiananmen style intervention/massacre if the need ever arises. Dissent will be crushed before it becomes a movement. We're looking at one of the greatest threats to our freedom ev…

I have trust in the human race that they will reach a boiling point, and no mechanism can stop that from spiralling out — it's been like that throughout the history. I don't see nukes as of any use (nuking their own dissenting population would surely trigger a civil war: nobody will take that) — nukes are mostly there to deter external invaders (as soon as you use them, that deterring value is gone)!

Their economy is mostly based on inequality between the West and the rest (and internally, between poor regions and cities): as they are quickly catching up in salaries and standard of living, it will level off (sure, their domestic market is huge as well and gives them another few years or a decade).

I'd instead say that media-manipulation based on scientific exploration of the human mind and behaviour is a bigger threat to our freedom: we won't even know that we've lost it. Still, even in that case, I am sure enough people will see what's going on, and will be able to convince others of the bad sides of it.

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#47

Post by burntbridge »

toyg wrote: post #25
necovek wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's definitely true for women around the world (including in China). But while "silencing" is happening throughout the world for victims of sexual crimes (and we should work to stop this), what's happening to Peng is probably unrelated to the type of crime, but rather about who the perpetrator was (a highly-ranked CCP official). She'd likely see the same fate if she talked about witnessing him do any other crime:…

Reaction to a scandal is one of those things where you really see the difference between a democracy, imperfect as it might be, and a tyrannical regime. In democracy, scandal brings disgrace and resignations; the office-holder has demonstrated to be morally unfit and lost his right to lead. In tyranny, you get silence and threats; the boss rules because he is the boss , not because of any moral superiority recognised…

I didn't see any of that happen when Trump was in power or is that an aberration.

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#49

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

dadarecit wrote: post #29
necovek wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's been at the receiving end of "applying pressure" (sanctions and bombing), it effectively did nothing to harm those in power, but instead only made innocent people suffer even more. "Ideals" are not a constant, and each and everyone has their own. There are values we should strive to protect, but disenfranchising whole nation for the minority (not that long ago, USA had a minority government when it c…

What is this moral relativism? If you want to live in a world where disappearing people for speaking up, heavy handed state censorship and social credit score are all common practices - I suggest you buy one way ticket to China. It’s easy to talk all of this “liberal” bs while sipping your latte at your local Starbucks, but when it comes down to it you know very well what is right and what is wrong: you make the dist…

The social credit score (as most Westerners think of it) is a complete myth.

One of the top American experts on Chinese law, at Yale university, calls most Western reporting on the subject "social credit fan fiction."

There are various"social credit" systems in China, but the average person does not interact with them. They mostly exist to regulate businesses.

Individuals in China do not have a social credit score, and basically the only way to actually fall afoul of any social credit system is to break an existing law, and then fail to comply with a court order. Then, you might end up being barred from flying or buying a train ticket. But the idea that there's a number attached to every Chinese person that is constantly going up or down based on how they post online is just complete fiction.

As for "moral relativism," we really should not get into a petty, nationalist match about which country is worse than the other. The US has its own fair share of (arguably way worse) atrocities to answer for (see the entire Middle East over the last 20 years).

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#50

Post by burntbridge »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #26
theplumber wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see the chinesse people raising against CCP for this. Not even if the olympics are cancelled. It's well-known that CCP leaders are untouchable in China just like Kim is untouchable in NK. On the other hand if you look a bit to our politics, how affected was Trump by the rape/harrasment accusations? Certainly a big part of population would still vote for him even if the rape would be recorded. I don't defend C…

Trump was a bit of a special case, for whatever reason. No other presidential candidacy would have made it thirty seconds beyond the "Grab 'em by the pussy" scandal.

Seems like in the West we allow ourselves has a lot of "special cases". Maybe too many to bring to mind.
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