The Token Disconnect • Hacker News Board

Re: The Token Disconnect

#41

Post by chrisco255 » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

greyface- wrote: post #38

chrisco255 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the benefits: Uncensorable. Permissionless. Democratic. 100% Availability (Ethereum has 100% uptime for 7 years). No $GME rug pulls like what we saw earlier this year. No Great Financial Crisis due to opaque liabilities (everything is traceable, auditable, open source, solvent, collateralized). Non-custodial. Yield generation. Programmable capital management. It provides superior capital access and coordinatio…

> No $GME rug pulls like what we saw earlier this year. Not true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethereum#The_DAO_event Just like $GME, we have a handful of well-connected actors overriding the rules that typically govern the system, in response to a valid but unusual outcome that they don't like personally.

The Ethereum DAO event wasn't a rug pull. It was a bug.

There was a fork, which is a wonderful feature of blockchains. The original fork with the DAO hack still in place still exists: https://ethereumclassic.org/

Use that if you like. But clearly the community as a whole decided to repair the damage and move on. A fork like that would be too costly to pull off today. In addition, the maturity and growth of audit firms such as OpenZeppelin, have led to more secure DAOs, etc.

But by all means, use ETC if purism matters to you. Crypto is a free, open source movement.

Re: The Token Disconnect

#42

Post by chrisco255 » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

phillipcarter wrote: post #26

chrisco255 wrote: post #2

> These days I read a lot of cross-disciplinary commentary on the crypto asset bubble, and what strikes me as particularly strange is the sheer level of disconnect between people’s lived experience of this mania. Rather than do an investigation or analysis of some of the broader trends and successful applications of crypto, this article proceeds to make sweeping accusations devoid of earnest research. Here's what I w…

> DAOs will reinvent all sorts of organizations and will make internet native communities self-funded and self-sustainable. Just like ConstitutionDAO, right? https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/24/22800995/constitutiondao...

Okay, laugh at that all you want. I see a community of people that raised $41M in a permissionless, open source way. Ethereum gas fees have been higher than ever recently, which does make micro-payments impractical on layer 1, but the ETH community is currently migrating to layer 2s, such as Polygon, Arbitrum, Optimism, zkSync, and StarkNet, which will make micro-payments feasible again. This is an early, early attempt at collective bidding. The next iteration on something similar will get better and better.

The PEOPLE token also shot up 2000% over the past few days, so anyone that held their tokens has more than made up for gas costs as the remaining community members will likely spin up a new DAO for a different purpose.

Other similar DAOs, like Pleasr, have been successful at bidding for works of art, such as the unreleased Wu-Tang Album (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=pleasrdao+wutang&t=brave&ia=web) and the Edward Snowden Stay Free NFT (https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/16/22388548/edward-snowden-n...).

Stay tuned, my friend. You might miss the whole revolution if you blink.

Re: The Token Disconnect

#43

Post by greyface- » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

chrisco255 wrote: post #41

greyface- wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No $GME rug pulls like what we saw earlier this year. Not true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethereum#The_DAO_event Just like $GME, we have a handful of well-connected actors overriding the rules that typically govern the system, in response to a valid but unusual outcome that they don't like personally.

The Ethereum DAO event wasn't a rug pull. It was a bug. There was a fork, which is a wonderful feature of blockchains. The original fork with the DAO hack still in place still exists: https://ethereumclassic.org/ Use that if you like. But clearly the community as a whole decided to repair the damage and move on. A fork like that would be too costly to pull off today. In addition, the maturity and growth of audit firm…

$GME wasn't a rug pull. It was a market maker making a market.

There was a suspension of buys, which is a wonderful feature of retail brokerages. The security is still purchasable today, so no one was permanently harmed.

Clearly, the industry as a whole decided to repair the damage done by retail investors and move on. A naked short like that would be too costly to pull off today. In addition, many investors have learned from the experience.

But by all means, reject the comparison.

Re: The Token Disconnect

#44

Post by theamk » Mon, Nov 29, 2021, 4:39 PM UTC

chrisco255 wrote: post #36

theamk wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many people start their day and think: oh man, I have such a hard problem of "creating an on-chain marketplace with a sub-1000 line smart contract", I wish there were a product to solve this for me? If you want to show that blockchains are applicable to real world, you don't want to talk about implementation, but about UX. For example, you are a business and need money. Your choices are banks, VCs, and one of tho…

Here's the benefits: Uncensorable. Permissionless. Democratic. 100% Availability (Ethereum has 100% uptime for 7 years). No $GME rug pulls like what we saw earlier this year. No Great Financial Crisis due to opaque liabilities (everything is traceable, auditable, open source, solvent, collateralized). Non-custodial. Yield generation. Programmable capital management. It provides superior capital access and coordinatio…

All of those are true only if you stay on-chain, once you touch the real world things get much messier. Coinbase had outages. The number of coins in your account is safe, but their buying power is fluctuating much more than any old-school securities. Instead of "opaque liabilities" you have bugs in the contract. And the currencies are only solvent as long as there are buyers and media interest.

Also, I couldn't help to notice that you have ignored my questions -- how will the non-blockchain businesses use it? If a bakery needs some money to get a new bread machine because old one broke, do you really expect them to create a new token and adverize it all over the internet?

Re: The Token Disconnect

#45

Post by phillipcarter » Mon, Nov 29, 2021, 5:36 PM UTC

chrisco255 wrote: post #34

phillipcarter wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The point is not to make a better system, in every way; the point is making a functional system that is decentralized, so it can operate in a trustless, geo-distributed, multi-party way. Let me preface this by saying that I think it's deranged how ad-driven and surveillance-driven modern centralized tech has become. Why is what you are saying good for me and others? I can see some value in a currency that isn't spec…

Crypto provides a global pool of capital, and smart contracts provide a universal interface for establishing programmable rules for how capital is managed. This is a sea change akin to the discovery of double-entry bookkeeping or the common stock corporation. You may reside in one jurisdiction your entire life, but the whole point of the internet is to connect humanity. You have no doubt interacted with hundreds or t…

Distributed, borderless raising of capital seems like a great application.

But I guess where I'm not seeing it is here:

> The point is not to make a better system, in every way; the point is making a functional system that is decentralized, so it can operate in a trustless, geo-distributed, multi-party way.

A way to raise capital with less restrictions would support this statement. But that's just one application. And I'm not in the business of raising capital.