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Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

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Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#41
Isn't any evaluation of how a person or company affected to the world shaped by each individual's own value-system? By what criteria do you rank someone's achievement? Is it by the number of people affected ... longevity of their creations ... enlightenment to society? There's no one way to judge such a thing because it's all subjective. Users of Apple products are potentially more-biased towards the company that created their tools of choice ... just as a guy that hosts a search-engine podcast is probably more likely to extol the achievements of his favorite search company. A world away from those two corporate titans, I'm sure, if asked, a villager in Somalia that just received a shipment of food and vitamins probably thinks whomever facilitated those things has made the most profound impact on the world. In their case, whether Google or Apple ever existed, food in their stomach and vitamins to address malnourishment may have allowed them to live another day. How many iPads equate to extending a life?

My point is that everybody has their own perceptions of what's important in this world. For Peter Nowak, apparently it's Apple. For Jesse Brown, it's Google. And that's fine ... in order for anyone to ever exchange money for goods they need to value what that good can do for them over the money in their pocket.

People should value things differently, otherwise all trade would grind to a halt as everybody hoarded the exact same shit. Ultimately .... what people value is really irrelevant ... but trying to rank Apple over Google, or vice-versa seems somewhat pointless to me ... especially since both companies are still plugging away throwing new things into the world to see what flies.

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#42
post #7

I really don't understand the need to denigrate Apple. It almost seems as this spawns from an instinctive respect for the significance that Apple, and Steve Jobs specifically, have actually had. Apple invented the GUI (using some ideas they licensed from Xerox), as part of a project that Steve Jobs led. The NeXT cube inspired the web to some extent and made the first browser much easier to write. Apple invented the t…

> But, what significant inventions can we credit to Microsoft?

They put a computer in every home.

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#43
post #7

I really don't understand the need to denigrate Apple. It almost seems as this spawns from an instinctive respect for the significance that Apple, and Steve Jobs specifically, have actually had. Apple invented the GUI (using some ideas they licensed from Xerox), as part of a project that Steve Jobs led. The NeXT cube inspired the web to some extent and made the first browser much easier to write. Apple invented the t…

I believe you may be overstating your point, or maybe it's the wording, but I hope you are not implying that sony or hp or samsung, with almost 200 years of total company histories, have not invented much and have survived by sheer luck.

I believe Sony has some significant innovations in portable music players back in the 1970s, and certainly made major strides in transistor radios in decades prior. Samsung I'm not really aware of any innovations from, but I wouldn't deny that they may be there. HP was very innovative in test equipment, but not so much in personal computers, as far as I am aware.

But it is worth noting that I was genuinely asking a question. It is easy for me to think of the innovations I named (and many more) from Apple, and the ones I named from Google, but off the top of my head, in the areas of mobile phones, tablets and personal computers I can't think of any from those other companies... and wondered if I wasn't missing them... so, by all means, if you have some significant innovations to bring up, I'd be happy to hear them.

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#44
post #2

Article summary: All right, but apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?

I actually agree to the part where it says that Apple has not been the different change-maker. A very large part of the world population is still unaffected by Apple Products. MS for that instance has a much larger impact on the world of personal computing. Apple did produce some incredibly cool gadgets, but that was about it. iPods and iTunes was probably insanely popular in US (and Europe), just like iPhones and iP…

[Any particular reason for downvote(s)?]

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#45
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GUI is a revolution from the command line. The personal computer is a revolution from the mini-computer and the mainframe. Apple invented both of those. The touch interface is revolutionary, compared to plastic buttons, and Apple invented that. I find it amazing that people can claim, with a straight face that Apple "combined things were were already doing in slick and usable packages" about things that did not e…

GUI: No. [3] Touch: No. [1][2] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-touch#History [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchscreen#History [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_graphical_user_i...

If you want to disagree with what I said, you need to make an actual argument. Simply providing links is an automatic failure, because you're expecting me to go hunting for a counter argument to the statements I made, and none of those links were written in rebuttal to them.

That being said, your links are not authoritative, nor do they even address what I said.

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#46
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I really don't understand the need to denigrate Apple." Me either, but I also don't really understand the need to sanctify them, and I don't see how anyone could read this article as a denigration of Apple unless they've already made them sacrosanct in their heads. Also, I don't think your history of Pixar is really correct. Lucas sold Pixar pretty much solely because he needed the money because of his divorce. It i…

The answer to your question is a quote from Lucas that I read in a hardback book covering the history of Pixar from around that time. He essentially said as much. Also, at that time, Industrial Light and Magic was a practical shop, they were not doing "digital filmmaking" and Lucas wasn't yet a proponent of digital filmmaking, as this really didn't exist yet. So, Pixar was very much an odd duck there, they didn't hav…

...by google fans because they want to believe that it is ok for google to rip off the iPhone and give away a counterfeit operating system.

Here you go too far. You don't have to like Android, MeeGo, or any other non-Apple OS, but calling any of them counterfeit is highly inaccurate. Google isn't stealing Apple's software and repackaging it as their own.

In the form of the oft-used car analogy: you're accusing Hyundai of selling "counterfeit" cars because they slightly resemble a Jaguar.

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#47
post #7

I really don't understand the need to denigrate Apple. It almost seems as this spawns from an instinctive respect for the significance that Apple, and Steve Jobs specifically, have actually had. Apple invented the GUI (using some ideas they licensed from Xerox), as part of a project that Steve Jobs led. The NeXT cube inspired the web to some extent and made the first browser much easier to write. Apple invented the t…

> But, what significant inventions can we credit to Microsoft? They put a computer in every home.

An accomplishment, for sure. But, not an invention.

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#48
post #7

I really don't understand the need to denigrate Apple. It almost seems as this spawns from an instinctive respect for the significance that Apple, and Steve Jobs specifically, have actually had. Apple invented the GUI (using some ideas they licensed from Xerox), as part of a project that Steve Jobs led. The NeXT cube inspired the web to some extent and made the first browser much easier to write. Apple invented the t…

> But, what significant inventions can we credit to Microsoft? They put a computer in every home.

I think that's a pretty arguable point. I would argue, for instance, that it was Apple that put a computer in every home... as the Apple II was selling very well, before microsoft came onto the scene. Microsoft was successful in taking marketshare away from Apple, but it was apple who invent the home computer category.

At any rate, I don't deny Microsofts massive commercial success... but that success is not itself an invention. If you meant the personal computer, it wasn't microsoft that invented it.

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#49
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that none of what Apple brought about in the last decade was "significant" in the same way that sanitation, ..., public health are. They primarily brought combinations of things we were already doing in slick and usable packages. They produced a bunch of great products, no doubt, but I cringe whenever someone calls an iThing "revolutionary".

The GUI is a revolution from the command line. The personal computer is a revolution from the mini-computer and the mainframe. Apple invented both of those. The touch interface is revolutionary, compared to plastic buttons, and Apple invented that. I find it amazing that people can claim, with a straight face that Apple "combined things were were already doing in slick and usable packages" about things that did not e…

Recall that the context of this article is innovations over the last decade. Both the GUI and personal computers are 35+ years old (and neither were pioneered by Apple; Xerox invented the GUI, and other systems like the TRS-80 and Altair 8800 were on the market in the Apple I/II era). Even direct-manipulation touchscreen interfaces predate this decade; I remember ordering at Arby's using such a system in the 1990s.

I'm no Apple hater. I just want to keep an appropriate perspective. They've made some VERY good products, but over the last decade, their focus has been more on "putting together a complete product in a slick, well-made package" than on "making life-changing leaps". There's nothing wrong with that, but don't mistake it for something it's not.

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree though that Google has more impact than Apple. Every student, every high schooler or college student, professor, scientist etc around the world use Google to get access to knowledge, learn and get their job done. I live in Peru where every student use google to get knowledge, I haven't seen anyone with an idevice anywhere here. I think the service Google has done to humanity by making information accessible t…

I live in Peru where every student use google to get knowledge, Sure, but if Google wasn't around they would probably be using Yahoo or AltaVista to get knowledge.

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