Earlier quoted context omitted.
Protectionism makes everyone worse off.
Does it? Early covid we didn't even have enough PPE. Countries that produced PPE had it.
Yes, but why? Let me answer, because slave labor is cheaper.
Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas
41–50 of 453 posts
Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas
#42Ok, this article quietly gets fucking wild halfway through. >> Samsung spent years evaluating where to build the new fab, courting multiple locations and pitting them against each other for better incentives. But the ultimate decision came down to Samsung Group's leader Jay Y. Lee, who was granted early parole in August expressly to speed up crucial business decisions like the Texas chip fab. Accounting for between 1…
> with executives pardoned for crimes in the name of ensuring national economic growth. Is that really so different from how things work here?
Criming USian overlords typically don't have to suffer the indignity of a conviction.
Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
The U.S. supply chains would be completely wrecked. We're probably close to a point where in the event of a global war with China, we wouldn't be able to mobilize industry in the same way we did during WW2 simply because the industrial output fo yesteryear no longer exists in the U.S.
On the other hand, people forget the amount of IP (including semi design) that goes from the world to China/Taiwan to design products. But that's what the whole point of free trade is supposed to be: increased interdependence, so that everyone has a gun to everyone else's head, and no one is incentivized to pull the trigger.
China can manage with loss of most or all access to American/NATO IP. America/NATO can't really manage without Chinese imports.
Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
Samsung could build the plant in South Korea?
Same situation. Most of South Koreas infrastructure / urban centers would be decimated in an 'all out' conflict with North Korea. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelpeck/2020/08/11/north-ko...
In particular, all of Seoul is in artillery range of the north
Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas
#45So everyone is on the "Let's build a Fab in the USA" train, will that eventually bring down the chip production costs? (not an expert in the field, so asking naively)
(Also not an expert.) In general I wouldn't expect US manufacturing to do a lot to lower production costs. More capacity in general obviously helps, and I could definitely see the US doing a lot to subsidize domestic production, if that counts as bringing down the costs. Maybe higher wages will lead to more automation.
Expert here. Worked in a Fab (Automated Material Handling Systems or AMHS group).
You might be suprised how automated it already is [1]. Notice the OHTs (Overhead Hoist Transport)[2] running on a system of highways and superhighways on the ceiling. Each of these OHTs carry a box inside it called a FOUPs (Front Opening Unified Pods)[3] carrying upto 25 wafers. That can easily be worth $1M+ per box. They have standardized JEDEC interfaces so any process tool can accept a FOUP and get wafers out of it. The environment inside these FOUPs is ridiculously clean and each one costs $15k for what most people would think is a plastic box with a door in the front. FOUPs are used internally. If wafers are shipped, they're shipped in a similar box called FOSB or Front Opening Shipping Boxes [4]. These boxes are the reason automation happens with standardized "APIs". We don't need to know who made the process tool to hand them a box of wafers.
Another automation feature are the AGVs or Automated Guided Vehicles [5] that carry the same FOUPs and FOSBs [5]. They also can be equipped with a robot arm that takes a wafer out of the box and hands it over to the tool. The AGVs run on specialized roads inside the Fab and remains docked on the tool during processing.
Usually, there are hardly any humans around the tool. Material (wafer) is fed by AMHS systems, picked up by the same. Fab is probably one of the most automated manufacturing places out there. Way more than Automotive manfacturing.
If you're looking to do software engineering, I would highly encourage people to go work in semiconductor industry. It is just a fucking cool place and lot of room for improvement still.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRlcZqqyBM8
[2] https://www.muratec.net/cfa/products/
[3] https://www.entegris.com/shop/en/USD/Products/Wafer-Handling...
[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOUP#/media/File:Front_opening...
.jpg){kind=link}
[5] https://www.muratec-usa.com/machinery/clean-room/transport/A...
Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas
#46So everyone is on the "Let's build a Fab in the USA" train, will that eventually bring down the chip production costs? (not an expert in the field, so asking naively)
This is about the war with china.
Europe: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/tech-is-make-or-break-i...
Germany: https://www.infineon.com/cms/en/about-infineon/press/press-r...
Korea: https://fortune.com/2021/05/13/south-korea-chip-semiconducto...
Japan: https://www.aroged.com/2021/11/23/japan-has-allocated-5-2-bi...
Non-OP USA: https://9to5mac.com/2021/06/09/us-chip-production-52b/
Key players are expecting an all out war with China:
France: https://www.economist.com/europe/2021/03/31/the-french-armed...
Taiwan: https://thediplomat.com/2021/10/taiwan-says-it-is-preparing-...
Australia: https://au.news.yahoo.com/chilling-warning-of-australias-rol...
AUKUS: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/sep/16/what-is-the...
Japan: https://hamlinemidwayhistory.org/japanese-aircraft-carriers-...
China is fully aware of the cold war: https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/chinas-leader-xi-w...
Let me blow your mind far more:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagon_UFO_videos
These aren't hillbillies. This is US government technology recording and confirming UFOs.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pentagon-ufo-report-released-ma...
And nobody is talking about it? This is completely related to the war with china.
It's all an attempt to prevent war with China. Though that does mean a peasant revolt in china is coming.
Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
Globalization led to an erosion of US wages and the hollowing out of our middle class. If we buy local, it creates domestic jobs. Wages go up too. We need to onshore more .
Protectionism makes everyone worse off.
>> Protectionism makes everyone worse off.
Yeah I mean look at how China has grown the last 25 years with their fully open markets.
Every approach has pluses and minuses. Putting your own first is common and healthy. The US has been failing to do this for some time now, and the economy is pinned in a corner with no easy way out.
Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
> with executives pardoned for crimes in the name of ensuring national economic growth. Is that really so different from how things work here?
Criming USian overlords typically don't have to suffer the indignity of a conviction.
Yeah, the only difference here is that these people are never charged or convicted. "Just a smart businessman"
Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Globalization led to an erosion of US wages and the hollowing out of our middle class. If we buy local, it creates domestic jobs. Wages go up too. We need to onshore more .
Protectionism makes everyone worse off.
Opening up trade doesn’t necessarily make everyone better off. If makes everyone better off overall, at least to first order, but if you have national security requirements for needing domestic capacity anyway, that may make a bigger difference.
And you can make trade better for everyone period if you redistribute some of the gains of trade to those that it makes worse off. But… we don’t always do that…
Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas
#50So everyone is on the "Let's build a Fab in the USA" train, will that eventually bring down the chip production costs? (not an expert in the field, so asking naively)
Globalization led to an erosion of US wages and the hollowing out of our middle class. If we buy local, it creates domestic jobs. Wages go up too. We need to onshore more .
If you think bringing manufacturing to the US is about jobs, then I have a bridge to sell you.
> We need to onshore more.
Simple solutions to overly complex problems is not the answer.
First, manufacturing output has steadily increased since the 90s. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/INDPRO
Second, the number of manufacturing jobs have steadily declined since the 90s. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MANEMP
How is this possible? Automation. These plants aren't creating US jobs and increasing wages, they're simply creating more wealth for corporations which they would have done anyway overseas. And since Samsung is a Korean company, the wealth is being created in Korea, not the US.