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Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

blog.nuclearsecrecy.com

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Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

#41

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

the_af wrote: post #5

> Some of the stories are more in the line of “hooray for Soviet scientists” genre, which I find a lot less interesting I find this very telling about the reviewer. When the Russians (or Soviets) show gallows humor, or are simply bizarre or we (in the West) want to read dark undertones in what they wrote: hell yes, it's just like I thought, the Soviet Union must have been a constant nightmare! When they write in a se…

As a kid I don't remember that much, but I do remember a Stalin joke, which something like this:

A film crew is making a film about the benevolence of Stalin. A little child walks up to the leader and asks for a sweet. Stalin says fuck off and the crew is immediately filming 'He could have killed her.' card.

That said, I agree with your overall point. We all see, what we want to see. The few that don't are either children or those who train themselves to actually look.

Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

#42

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

lazypenguin wrote: post #18
lmilcin wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are underestimating how effective a "management" technique is demonstrating that you can shoot underperforming minions. A lot of that "management" was simply terrorizing people to do your bidding. So, no, he most likely wasn't a good manager the same way a bank robber isn't showing "good interpersonal skills" because he was able to convince all patrons to sit by the wall and employees to open the vault.

I would also say not to underestimate the effort required to be in the position where you are making the threats rather than on the receiving end. A rise to that position also includes effectively managing your rivals into oblivion.

I am willing to agree. That is one of the reasons I sometimes feel people do not treat Putin seriously enough. The guy rose through ranks of US equivalent of CIA. You do not get there purely by luck. You do need skills including management.

Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

#43

Post by cm2187 »

mordechai9000 wrote: post #9
quercusa wrote: post #4

For Soviet-era black humor, it's hard to beat the 2017 movie The Death of Stalin .

It was hilarious, but not very accurate. I don't expect accuracy from a film like that, but it's good to keep in mind. Beria was even worse than they depicted. He was a sadistic serial killer and sexual predator.

If you want accuracy, a very good but slightly forgotten movie is a 1992 HBO movie called Stalin with Robert Duvall

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105462/

Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

#44

Post by dang »

throwaway984393 wrote: post #11

Surely we shouldn't look at these subjects with blinders on. I'm sure the Soviet Union has done some evil deeds and killed scores of people in service of national zealotry, then tried to cover it up. But what global superpower hasn't? Realpolitik is an inevitable consequence of the modern world.

Please don't take HN threads on generic flamewar tangents. They're tedious, predictable (just look at the predictable responses below) and usually turn nasty.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

#45

Post by spaetzleesser »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #42
lazypenguin wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would also say not to underestimate the effort required to be in the position where you are making the threats rather than on the receiving end. A rise to that position also includes effectively managing your rivals into oblivion.

I am willing to agree. That is one of the reasons I sometimes feel people do not treat Putin seriously enough. The guy rose through ranks of US equivalent of CIA. You do not get there purely by luck. You do need skills including management.

I would rate Putin as extremely intelligent. What he has achieved is pretty impressive and he has held his position for a very long time. . You don’t have to like him but you have to accept that he is very good at what he does.

Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

#46

Post by tada131 »

IgorPartola wrote: post #40

I was born in the USSR and speak Russian. I generally get Russian humor and some Russian jokes are quite funny. However I share the author’s opinion here: finding the humor in these jokes is rough. I watched the first video where the jokes are being told and honestly event the funniest of these are barely funny. You have to really place yourself into the situation where these people are considered larger than life an…

Russian too, yep thats not funny, but you should know one of the most must-do things for US (gov payed) historian today - eventually write story about freaky-bloody Stalin, Gulag and Beria who eats children. For the sake of Freedom and Wellfare of course. Don't forget that von Neumann was truly genious at least because he wanted to wipe that Hell from the Earth (Yep they never told you that) Somewhat expressive and subjective comment, though not worse than the style of linked piece of mind.

Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

#47

Post by BrandoElFollito »

IgorPartola wrote: post #40

I was born in the USSR and speak Russian. I generally get Russian humor and some Russian jokes are quite funny. However I share the author’s opinion here: finding the humor in these jokes is rough. I watched the first video where the jokes are being told and honestly event the funniest of these are barely funny. You have to really place yourself into the situation where these people are considered larger than life an…

I am French. This is the exact problem I have with some movies my Polish friends told me to watch.

They were from the 70-80's and were making fun of the situation at that time (how to game the communists, the system, or the absurdity of said system).

I did not find them funny at all because I did not have the context. To me they were depressing.

I wonder how contemporary young Polish people see them today (when they watch them at all).

Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

#48

Post by 1123581321 »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #31
lmilcin wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are underestimating how effective a "management" technique is demonstrating that you can shoot underperforming minions. A lot of that "management" was simply terrorizing people to do your bidding. So, no, he most likely wasn't a good manager the same way a bank robber isn't showing "good interpersonal skills" because he was able to convince all patrons to sit by the wall and employees to open the vault.

You are underestimating how effective a "management" technique is demonstrating that you can shoot underperforming minions. I am somewhat skeptical of this take. I think if heaping abuse and threats of worse on people worked magic, there would be no homeless people in the US. Threats only work if the capacity is there -- or almost there -- and it's feasible to extract X with sufficient pressure. But you still can't g…

The threat must be legible and have a credible threat of authoritative judgment so steps can be taken to predictably avoid the consequence. It's not at all clear to a homeless person what steps they should take to reduce suffering in their life. (I'm aware I'm replying to a homeless or formerly homeless person. And it needn't be said, but I'm not saying that an effective threat is moral.)

Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

#49

Post by Animats »

spaetzleesser wrote: post #8
Animats wrote: post #2

Beria really was in charge of the early Soviet nuclear weapons program, and, while everyone was terrified of him, he was apparently good at managing the program. The classic joke about that, and it may not have been a joke, is that after the first bomb worked, the people who would have been shot if it failed got the Hero of the Soviet Union award. The ones that would have been sent to a labor camp got some lesser awa…

" he was apparently good at managing the program." That's one thing a lot of people don't understand. A lot of these monsters aren't just monsters but they are also very capable. Beria was a good manager, so was Himmler who led the Nazi SS. Stalin also was a hard worker and a master bureaucrat.

A lot of these monsters aren't just monsters but they are also very capable.

Scary thought for today: what happens when MAGA world finds someone with not just charisma, but competence and energy?

Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

#50

Post by narrator »

spaetzleesser wrote: post #8
Animats wrote: post #2

Beria really was in charge of the early Soviet nuclear weapons program, and, while everyone was terrified of him, he was apparently good at managing the program. The classic joke about that, and it may not have been a joke, is that after the first bomb worked, the people who would have been shot if it failed got the Hero of the Soviet Union award. The ones that would have been sent to a labor camp got some lesser awa…

" he was apparently good at managing the program." That's one thing a lot of people don't understand. A lot of these monsters aren't just monsters but they are also very capable. Beria was a good manager, so was Himmler who led the Nazi SS. Stalin also was a hard worker and a master bureaucrat.

Beria's daughter in law mused to Simon Sebag Montefiore, a recent Stalin biographer, in an interview that "Beria was the kind of man who, if he lived in the United States, might very well have become chairman of General Motors."
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