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PHP is worth learning and using

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Re: PHP is worth learning and using

#41

Post by postalrat »

mikl wrote: post #30
postalrat wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And there's a reason why people are generally not doing web stuff in python or rust.

Lots and lots of people do web stuff in Python. There are a whole bunch of Python web frameworks like Django, Pylons, Flask, etc. And there are big sites written in Python, too. Reddit, YouTube, some Google apps, Spotify, Netflix. Rust is still a bit young, but also has several web frameworks like Rocket. No big case studies that I know of, but Rust still has many more fields of applications than PHP does.

Sure, a small minority of sites are partially written in python.

Re: PHP is worth learning and using

#42

Post by cupcake-unicorn »

I don't really understand the reasons for using PHP outside of that people are already familiar with it and like working with it or want to find jobs in that area.

If someone is new to software development and in an area of the world where it's not mostly PHP shops, so bigger cities, I don't really understand the benefit.

PHP is often used to do certain things or it may be faster for you to whip something up in Laravel but if you had someone who was a complete blank slate and could chose any language and any framework in a town that doesn't have PHP jobs...why? What's the reason then?

I really think these articles come off really strange like they're trying to convince me as a "fact" but are really just nostalgia, like someone who goes off about how "cars were built so much better back in the day, there's still uses for older cars!" Maybe there is a grain of truth there and some real reasons behind it (repairability) but for 95% of use cases it's just that there's no contest, for a new driver, in an average situation there's no benefit towards going to an older car, and the guy going on about "older cars are the best", while they may have some weird reason that does actually apply to them (and as far as this analogy goes, I think Fortran is a better example than PHP in this case than PHP as for some maths applications it apparently still has an edge but that could have changed) honestly it's just nostalgia/trying to indoctrinate people...

Re: PHP is worth learning and using

#43

Post by rp1 »

brandon272 wrote: post #14

I have used PHP for years. Like it. Have accomplished some nice things with it. Think it's evolved nicely in recent years. Feel it's a great tool for particular problems. Will continue to use it. Will always be open to alternatives. Will never understand why some people find that so offensive and will tell you that you mustn't use it or imply that you are ignorant or stupid for using it.

I haven’t used PHP in over a decade. I can never forgot how much PHP got wrong in terms of how application development on the internet would happen. The ergonomics of using it were just… bad compared to other frameworks that came on the market. I remember when rails came out and it was so mind blowing compared to PHP. The language was certainly useful for a time, and I’m sure the language has progressed since, but switching to PHP still feels like it would be a huge step backwards.

Re: PHP is worth learning and using

#44

Post by philliphaydon »

mikl wrote: post #33
wiseowise wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing platform-specific about C# and Kotlin.

In theory, true. In practise, they are most popularly used for the Microsoft and Android ecosystems, respectively. I’ve reworded it to platform-oriented.

I'm not sure what you mean by platform-oriented.

Re: PHP is worth learning and using

#46

Post by anm89 »

brailsafe wrote: post #32
anm89 wrote: post #7

This seems like a false dichotomy. Is php totally worthless in 2021. Absolutely not. Is php the best language to spend your limited time learning in 2021? Almost definitely absolutely not as well.

But, what is, if not php? Do you shoot for what has had longevity, or what's rising?

But what is, if not Visual Basic? Do you shoot for what has had longevity, or what's rising?

But what is, if not Motorola 68000 Assembly? Do you shoot for what has had longevity, or what's rising?

Pointing out that there is not absolute certainty about what is the top choice for a better idea does not make php, or visual basic, or 68000 worth spending your time on in 2021.

Re: PHP is worth learning and using

#47

Post by Zababa »

I have a few questions:

- Is the "your app gets initialized and torn down for every request" true for frameworks like Laravel and Symfony?

- Does this model uses OS threads? Does it uses green threads?

And then a few remarks about the language:

- I feel like the Go model is a way better model for server software than async. Since PHP is mostly used for server software, I feel like they shouldn't go with async. Python is currently going through the transition and it's painful and long.

- It feels a bit weird to see how full of objects PHP is. Modern languages (Go, Swift, Rust, TypeScript) tend to use less objects, and more plain imperative code or slightly functional code in my experience.

Re: PHP is worth learning and using

#48

Post by cardosof »

Folks bashing PHP like it's crap but praising any crappy thing if it's built with an esoteric lisp-based language. I mean, if you're starting out, chances are you're better off with js/py or even go but in the end you're paid for the types of problems you solve, not by the language you use... It just turns out that some problems are easier in this or that language, or even people who are good at solving this or that problem just happen to use an specific language (like the bioinformatics people using R when they could have used py).

Re: PHP is worth learning and using

#50

Post by anm89 »

anm89 wrote: post #46
brailsafe wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, what is, if not php? Do you shoot for what has had longevity, or what's rising?

But what is, if not Visual Basic? Do you shoot for what has had longevity, or what's rising? But what is, if not Motorola 68000 Assembly? Do you shoot for what has had longevity, or what's rising? Pointing out that there is not absolute certainty about what is the top choice for a better idea does not make php, or visual basic, or 68000 worth spending your time on in 2021.

Fine: python, ruby, go, rust, elixir, c, java, javascript, plenty more.

Pick whatever you want. Just don't pick a language that is known to be on it's last legs.

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