Live data from Hacker News

Nicholas Carr on how to fix social media

thenewatlantis.com

41–50 of 107 posts

Re: Nicholas Carr on how to fix social media

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you call it when you make a post that you assume your friends can see and only some are presented your post?

What do you mean by presented? If I have a friend who has 4000 friends and I am their 4000th most important friend, I would sufficiently believe that a generic post of mine would not appear at the top of their feed and they might not see it. I get the idea of not having all the "so and so friend liked so and so's post" which feel low quality in a feed, but part of a custom feed is prioritizing updates from people you…

If you were making the choice as to which friends you wanted to hear from or updates you wanted to receive from you're friends, then I take you point. When someone else, or their algorithm, makes these decisions that is something else and it may actually veer into censorship.

Re: Nicholas Carr on how to fix social media

#42

My 2 cents on how to fix social media, maybe it is stupid but to ban any political discussion. People LOVE talking about politics especially in their personal community (echo chamber). I swear this is the most fun political people have had on the internet in 20 years. It’s too bad it just becomes an echo chamber. We had a community group for our town on Facebook, all it was was fake accounts and people talking shit a…

You realize that under your proposal, your own proposal would be banned right? You are advocating policy. That’s politics.

lol! nice catch ...that definitely got me thinking

Re: Nicholas Carr on how to fix social media

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this type of argument devolves into "I want to be a crappy person and not be judged for it or face consequences" Whereas I find your counter-argument devolves into "Crappy people are those who disagree with my point of view and they should face consequences"... The truth is there are extremes on both sides; but the censorship seems to be overwhelmingly driven by one.

So how does this work? Some one is crappy for thinking violence, racism, misinformation, and harassment should never be tolerated? What's extreme about that? Please do enlighten me... There is nothing extreme about getting booted from facebook because one can't behave like a reasonable adult. As noted above if anyone did any of this in a setting like a restaurant they would be asked to leave, coupled with assistance…

Only point I would make is to say that censorship has occurred.

But that's not necessarily a bad thing. There are times and places to censor and be censored. Not all things should be said at all times.

I think the problem is that we see censorship as something bad, so anyone quelling speech inappropriate for the setting can't be censoring because they're doing something good, not bad. But censorship isn't bad in and of itself. It's the reason for the censorship that makes it good or bad.

Censoring people because they are criticising you? That's bad. Censoring people because they are talking about hockey on a basketball forum? That's good.

So I would say, don't fall into the trap of getting into an argument about defining censorship. Keep the argument focused along the lines of kicking assholes out of McDonalds. Have them explain how its different from that.

Re: Nicholas Carr on how to fix social media

#44
Stop trying to fix or demolish it already. You don't own it and have no right to control everybody else. Think for a minute about how every proposal and precedent could be used against you. The pattern of "Lets do away with due process because I am angry! Wah my lack of due process!" has been repeated too damn many times.

Re: Nicholas Carr on how to fix social media

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, I'm not censored on any platform. Then again I don't make violent threats, spread misinformation, use racist language, or harass people. I feel free to have these discussions, and I do all the time. What's the problem? You can communicate freely, but that doesn't mean there isn't consequences for things you speak and nobody has to host you while you're broadcasting it. I find this type of argument devolves int…

>Funny, I'm not censored on any platform. Then again I don't... spread misinformation That's because you can't think outside the box. All the greatest iconoclastic truths in human history were labeled "dangerous misinformation" by the authorities.

What kind of argument is that? It's not like those people invented electrical power. They spread lies which cost lives. Every day. People DIE because of misinformation.

Snake oil salesman were no heroes of humanity.

Re: Nicholas Carr on how to fix social media

#46
> While the government can’t police private conversations, it can regulate the content of broadcasts to protect the public interest.

I've never agreed with this idea and I don't think I'm alone in that. Possibly "public interest" is the wrong word.

> It’s worth remembering that Congress’s decision to license radio operators after the Titanic disaster was about more than just allocating scarce spectrum. It was about bringing those who speak to the masses out of the shadows and into the daylight of the public square. It was about making broadcasters, whether individuals, businesses, or other organizations, visible and accountable. We may not need to establish a formal licensing program for social media, but we do need to bring the spirit of the common good back to broadcasting.

Except operating in the clear is a well-known danger as well. People using the words "accountability" and "consequences" almost never want to discuss the upper and lower limits of such ideas. If the concept of "punching up" is any indicator, it's at least partially a dog whistle for who it's okay to abuse these days.

Such a system would need to be private as well, instead of operating in full transparency to prohibit the litany of performative exercises people will undergo these days to make their point. The author seems to try to assuage that only "powerful private interests" would take issue with the proposed system.

> An ambitious Digital Communications Act along the lines sketched out here would be complicated and controversial. It would be resisted by many powerful private interests. It would not be a panacea. But we can no longer pretend that social media will fix itself.

At the core of social media problems is bad human behavior of all persuasions. Some people just manage to learn or detach themselves.

Personally, I partially blame public API concepts for most of this mess. Whether you're talking about limitless graphs for sharing "information" (in its most general definition) or API's which can be enumerated. Their legitimate use is finite and at worst it's entirely extractive. Better regulation, to me, would be the government regulating what sort of information you allow to be open and possibly the use/limits of virality.

Re: Nicholas Carr on how to fix social media

#47

I don't want social media to censor me, people I want to communicate with or people I don't ever want to communicate with. I want tools that help me communicate with other people. Learn things, get exposed to new ideas. And we can't have that with a huge system designed to prevent people from saying the wrong things. Our ability to communicate and learn freely is dependent on the ability for people we disagree with t…

Funny, I'm not censored on any platform. Then again I don't make violent threats, spread misinformation, use racist language, or harass people. I feel free to have these discussions, and I do all the time. What's the problem? You can communicate freely, but that doesn't mean there isn't consequences for things you speak and nobody has to host you while you're broadcasting it. I find this type of argument devolves int…

> Then again I don't make violent threats, spread misinformation, use racist language, or harass people.

You didn't did it yet. All of those are moving targets, and moving extremely fast especially in the US. I could say a dozen of totally non controversial statements in my country of residence (Japan), half of which being controversial or labeled some kind of -ist in my own country (France) and all of them warranting me cancellation in the US. At this rate what you are writing now will be categorized racist, threatening or harassing in a few years or so. Even your nickname could already be considered some kind of harassment as it single out kids born out of wedlock and is thus enforcing "the patriarchy". (Think it's far-fetched? Have a look at GitHub renaming the master branch)

Re: Nicholas Carr on how to fix social media

#48
post #35
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole "cancel culture" concept has literally be around for years, it was just marketed now and used for politics. Humans have been cancelling people and things for eternity. People with extreme views that did not align with the majority were always pushed away. This even happened in medicine and science.

I think the problem is the "democratization" of cancelation. Someone says something mildly controversial (some talk radio host said something terse about a neighbor) and people start lodging complaints against the employer and the hosts advertisers. It's idiotic.

As if this hasn't been happening to gay people who got outed until extremely recently. It wasn't exclusively democratic, of course: the Don't Ask Don't Tell policy was only repealed a decade ago. Cancel culture isn't remotely new; only now it's punishing bigotry, not an instrument of bigotry. And, no shit, bigots are pissed about that.

Re: Nicholas Carr on how to fix social media

#49
post #5

Can't we just go back to the era where the "feed" or the "wall" was just the posts of our friends / the people we follow sorted by posting date and not this horrible algorithm made to show you infinite content ?

I do this in Twitter with lists. They don't make it obvious, but lists actually make it quite usable once you've set them up. Facebook (or Instagram) don't seem to have good options for this so for the most part I don't use them. Discord works chronologically, for now at least, and as long as it does I'll be happy to keep chatting with my friends there.

There is a chronological feed in FB but i haven't used it in years and they make it harder and harder to use. I've also heard of it not working for days on end.

Re: Nicholas Carr on how to fix social media

#50

I don't want social media to censor me, people I want to communicate with or people I don't ever want to communicate with. I want tools that help me communicate with other people. Learn things, get exposed to new ideas. And we can't have that with a huge system designed to prevent people from saying the wrong things. Our ability to communicate and learn freely is dependent on the ability for people we disagree with t…

Funny, I'm not censored on any platform. Then again I don't make violent threats, spread misinformation, use racist language, or harass people. I feel free to have these discussions, and I do all the time. What's the problem? You can communicate freely, but that doesn't mean there isn't consequences for things you speak and nobody has to host you while you're broadcasting it. I find this type of argument devolves int…

> Then again I don't spread misinformation

They cut the phone lines in Chernobyl for the same reason.

Post reply on HN