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Attempting to interpret sperm whale clicks with AI, then talk back

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Re: Attempting to interpret sperm whale clicks with AI, then talk back

#41

Post by slowmovintarget »

version_five wrote: post #9
DarknessFalls wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To hunt a species to extinction is not logical. Edit: Because the topic is about communicating with Whales and my response was to a comment about hunting them, I thought it would be appropriate to reference something Spock said in Star Trek IV. Colloquially known as "The one with the whales".

There are many (maybe all) examples from nature in which resources will get consumed until they are gone. "Logic" has nothing to do with it. That doesn't mean we should hunt species to extinction, but its definitely a natural thing to do.

One of the things that separates many humans from other kinds of animals is the ability to choose against instinct. To hold a hot cup for a little longer, enduring the pain so we don't drop it and break it. There are even some arguments that consciousness evolved to allow humans to do exactly that sort of thing; contradict hard-wired impulses.

That we are so terrible at modesty of consumption in groups is the real tragedy.

Re: Attempting to interpret sperm whale clicks with AI, then talk back

#42

Post by slowmovintarget »

DarknessFalls wrote: post #16
st_goliath wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Logic" has nothing to do with it. I guess the GP post is simply a direct quote from "Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home" (where IIRC Spock says something along those lines while he and Kirk visit a 20th century museum). Whales, their extinction and communicating with them was central to the plot of that film. EDIT: Ok, I looked it up. This exact quote is in the movie, verbatim , in the scene I mentioned. At around 00:4…

Correct. I think we're entering an era where Star Trek is largely forgotten. As opposed to two decades ago (right column): https://www.webdesignmuseum.org/gallery/icq-2001

Aye, it's a 35 year old movie. Which is stunning for me. I recall going to the theater to see it with my parents. It was the last movie we all saw together.

Re: Attempting to interpret sperm whale clicks with AI, then talk back

#43

Post by torben-friis »

ceejayoz wrote: post #2

Whale: “Hey, I found some fish.” Whale Eliza: “Interesting. How does that make you feel? Whale: “What the fuck?”

Not sure if it's the case with whales, bit as far as I know there is no recorded use of questions in the animal kingdom - all communication seems to be enunciative, or orders. Questions are exclusive to humans...

Re: Attempting to interpret sperm whale clicks with AI, then talk back

#44

Post by dang »

quotha wrote: post #5

Guarantee they just want us to shut the fuck up.

Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to Hacker News? You've been doing it repeatedly, and we're hoping for something different here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Attempting to interpret sperm whale clicks with AI, then talk back

#45

Post by qayxc »

unanswered wrote: post #20

> really transformational cultural moments Prediction: an astonishingly large portion of animal utterances will have to do with reducing the amount of carbon dioxide that humans pour into the atmosphere. You heard it here first.

Aye, turns out the whales are close friends with Koko and agree with everything she, um... said.

Re: Attempting to interpret sperm whale clicks with AI, then talk back

#46

Post by [deleted] »

oblak wrote: post #28
mc32 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. This happens pretty frequently. Hunting species to extinction, cutting down trees for fuel, etc.

Well, I didn't say we have a shortage of psychos, did I? Hunting the white rhinos to extinction is totally fine. It's just game theory, you guys.

[deleted]

Re: Attempting to interpret sperm whale clicks with AI, then talk back

#47

Post by amelius »

gnarbarian wrote: post #21
ceejayoz wrote: post #2

Whale: “Hey, I found some fish.” Whale Eliza: “Interesting. How does that make you feel? Whale: “What the fuck?”

"If a lion could speak we wouldn't understand him." - Wittgenstein https://ideasandaction.com/if-a-lion-could-speak/

Wouldn't simple sentences with the structure subject-verb-object be universal to any rational speaker?

A lion could say "I want food", or "I see dog", or "dog eats food".

I don't see why a lion's worldview could be so different from ours that this wouldn't be possible.

Re: Attempting to interpret sperm whale clicks with AI, then talk back

#48

Post by mistrial9 »

inglor_cz wrote: post #13
DarknessFalls wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To hunt a species to extinction is not logical. Edit: Because the topic is about communicating with Whales and my response was to a comment about hunting them, I thought it would be appropriate to reference something Spock said in Star Trek IV. Colloquially known as "The one with the whales".

Game Theory would probably say that it is logical, though at the end self-defeating. Usually the species is hunted for something valuable, and that means that the species becoming rarer translates to higher prices. So the people who successfully kill the very last specimens will get rich from them; an absolutely logical motivation, even if it has disastrous consequences down the line. If you can get ten million dolla…

some mystics have said plainly for a long while that logic-reason by itself enables insane conclusions and perhaps actions. I agree.

Re: Attempting to interpret sperm whale clicks with AI, then talk back

#49

Post by forgotmypw17 »

Misdicorl wrote: post #32

God I cannot wait to talk to whales. Their oral histories must be incredible. People have fantasized about communicating with extraterrestrials for ages. I don't understand why we haven't invested significant resources in trying to communicate with the other animals on our own planet. What an incredibly weird and non translatable experience it will be to (finally?!) start this adventure with whales. Tangent time. If…

You can do it today with other species. We are lucky to still be surrounded by all kinds of animals: mammals, birds, and even insects.

Of course, in order to talk, you have to spend a lot of time listening first. And what they say cannot often be translated to human talk.

In order to make friends, you have to give first. Our society teaches us to stay away from nature and leave it be, so you have to break past that.

The rewards are breathtaking and totally worth the effort.

Re: Attempting to interpret sperm whale clicks with AI, then talk back

#50

Post by WalterBright »

Misdicorl wrote: post #32

God I cannot wait to talk to whales. Their oral histories must be incredible. People have fantasized about communicating with extraterrestrials for ages. I don't understand why we haven't invested significant resources in trying to communicate with the other animals on our own planet. What an incredibly weird and non translatable experience it will be to (finally?!) start this adventure with whales. Tangent time. If…

Brain size may not necessarily correlate with intelligence because it isn't the number of neurons, it's the organization and optimization of them.

Just like we make much more powerful CPU chips in the same volume of silicon as before.

And it could be that it just isn't necessary for whales to optimize brain density, like it is for humans and crows.

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