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A man who takes 6 months of paternity is a loser – Palantir founder Joe Lonsdale

fortune.com

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Re: A man who takes 6 months of paternity is a loser – Palantir founder Joe Lonsdale

#41

Post by spamizbad »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #36
spamizbad wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've got Jon's money you can just buy help for your family. So from the perspective of a rich guy who can afford a live-in nanny, I'm not surprised he thinks 6 months of paternity leave is extravagant. But for normal people, you're lucky if you have some family to help out a day or two in the first few weeks. In the case of my wife and I for our son, we were flying solo. And that's assuming a normal birth - if y…

You can buy a nanny for your kid. You can't buy a dad.

True, although in my experience the first 6 months of being a dad is less about being a male role model and more focused on supporting mom and making sure the baby is healthy, safe and comfortable.

Re: A man who takes 6 months of paternity is a loser – Palantir founder Joe Lonsdale

#42

Post by [deleted] »

refurb wrote: post #35

The outrage cycle is strong with this one. Is this what social media amplifies? Some dude who makes a statement that is clearly atypical gets hyper focused on while internet “pundits” scream at each other about it? It’s clearly an extreme statement, made with the perfect intent to stoke outrage, that gets amplified, then Fortune writes an article and it gets linked on HN. Whatever happens to “wow that’s a dumb statem…

[deleted]

Re: A man who takes 6 months of paternity is a loser – Palantir founder Joe Lonsdale

#43

Post by nostrademons »

llampx wrote: post #18
arpyzo wrote: post #7

Every time I've switched jobs I looked back and questioned the time and effort I put in. It seems like I never got back what I put in. When it comes to my son though, I've never once regretted the time and effort I dedicated to him. Sounds like the real loser is Joe Lonsdale. I hope he'll come to understand what's truly import during the short time on this planet before it's too late.

I don't know if Jon is a father but I would absolutely not be surprised if, when he becomes one, he does take a healthy paternity leave. Many of these people are very "do as I say, not as i do" types.

Article says that he's a father of 3 but is committed to defending traditional gender roles.

Re: A man who takes 6 months of paternity is a loser – Palantir founder Joe Lonsdale

#45

Post by nostrademons »

spamizbad wrote: post #41
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can buy a nanny for your kid. You can't buy a dad.

True, although in my experience the first 6 months of being a dad is less about being a male role model and more focused on supporting mom and making sure the baby is healthy, safe and comfortable.

It's laying the groundwork, though. You can't be a good role model unless your kid trusts you, and that trust starts being built at birth.

Re: A man who takes 6 months of paternity is a loser – Palantir founder Joe Lonsdale

#46

Post by vagrantJin »

spamizbad wrote: post #29
llampx wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if Jon is a father but I would absolutely not be surprised if, when he becomes one, he does take a healthy paternity leave. Many of these people are very "do as I say, not as i do" types.

If you've got Jon's money you can just buy help for your family. So from the perspective of a rich guy who can afford a live-in nanny, I'm not surprised he thinks 6 months of paternity leave is extravagant. But for normal people, you're lucky if you have some family to help out a day or two in the first few weeks. In the case of my wife and I for our son, we were flying solo. And that's assuming a normal birth - if y…

> from the perspective of a rich guy who can afford a live-in nanny

I'm not arguing for or against Jon but your statement is quite indicative of large social issue. Family. Not long ago after childbirth, aunts, sisters and grandparents would be around to help the young couple take care of the baby - and their sanity - while keeping things moving. Alas, we've reduced family to an expense line item. All in the name of progress. Whatever that means.

So maybe I will stand with Jons of the world, albeit from a different perspective.

Re: A man who takes 6 months of paternity is a loser – Palantir founder Joe Lonsdale

#47

Post by jowdones »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #40
jowdones wrote: post #30

Yeah, the devil is in the details. I have a workmate that surprised me saying he's taking a year off paternity leave, getting a monthly paycheck from the state. The catch ... his wife is working from home. So in fact she is doing all the hard work child care. He... essentially took a paid-off sabbatical B-)

If she's working from home, why do you think she's doing all the child care? You think he's just sitting around while she both works and cares for the child?

That's what I imagine. Wife cooking and cradling the baby with one hand while the other types on the computer. Husband in armchair smoking a pipe while reading newspaper.

Re: A man who takes 6 months of paternity is a loser – Palantir founder Joe Lonsdale

#48

Post by iammisc »

In this thread, I notice a lot of comments talking about how men who don't take six months off (or don't see the point) lack 'love', want to leave mom 'exhausted', not wanting a 'healthy family life', etc.

These are all misguided.

Indeed, I levy the exact same claim on all those comments.

To claim that men not seeing the point of taking six months off don't want a healthy family life is a symptom of an American / Western family life gone horribly wrong. Mom should have lots of family, friends, etc, who are able to help her with the female aspects of being a new mom, such as breastfeeding, post-birth care, etc. Try as I may, as a husband, I cannot fully give my wife what her mom, my mom, and her female friends can give her. I'm useless at practical breastfeeding advice (and frankly, most lactation consultants are too), don't know how to advise her on vaginal healing, etc. I can read all day long about these things, but I would never think of the stuff her practiced friends and family would tell her.

Because we have a strong family and community, mom doesn't need to rely on dad for child care help. Dad can instead do other things, which are also useful for the family (like making sure mom has enough food to eat). That many women are relying on their husbands for this sort of support just shows the problems with the isolation of the American family.

When I took paternity leave with my youngest daughter (four weeks, and will probably do less next time), I was still working with my eldest daughter. She would help me with various tasks around the house, various projects that I needed help with, etc. In fact, I think I was out of the house more during paternity leave than when I'm working (since we're all WFH during COVID anyway).

Instead of overly long paternity leave (and again, I am not against paternity leave in general, just the months long ones), we need flexible hours for new fathers (way more useful than full day leave) and a culture that embraces actual community (not the forced government community either, but actual human connection).

Re: A man who takes 6 months of paternity is a loser – Palantir founder Joe Lonsdale

#49

Post by goalieQ »

999900000999 wrote: post #38

Another way to look at this is anyone who can take that much leave is absolutely privilege compared to typical working class people. Back when I was working minimum wage or near minimum wage it was rare to even see women take more than a month off. Many new fathers would only take one or two days. So at least with my working class background this is a couple of privileged people, from an extremely privileged class co…

What is possible is always changing. Nothing is static in the world and its always up to people with privledge to stir the pot cuz they arent as dependent on the landlord as the slaves.

Re: A man who takes 6 months of paternity is a loser – Palantir founder Joe Lonsdale

#50

Post by iammisc »

silexia wrote: post #14
brodouevencode wrote: post #11

The rhetoric is harsh, but I can sympathize with him. I would rather my children see how hard I work (it never went unnoticed), and now that they are older I happily include them in on what I do. But those early years should be dedicated to learning how to be social and nice - things women are better at than men on average. Traditionally men have been the workers, women have been the caregivers. This model has worked…

I have twin two year olds. Early on, I had to do a significant amount of work because there is two of them. But even with that work helping my wife, I still did not need any parental leave. Newborns are easy for a father... Just change the diaper, feed a bottle, and comfort them. Now that my kids are two years old, I need to spend more time with them teaching them things and I am sure that will grow. Maybe mothers sh…

> Maybe mothers should get leave right after birth and father's should get it as the kids get older to teach them more things?

Absolutely agree. My toddler is much more difficult than my newborn, and much more likely to behave with me than my wife.

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