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Does “skipping meals make you live longer”?

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Re: Does “skipping meals make you live longer”?

#41
I'm glad there are controlled studies that are documented so that we can have this discussion meaningfully and attempt to sequester the quacks.

There's a reason why we have chi-squared and T-tests, and an entire branch of math dedicated to statistical analysis for empirical studies. (And please don't quote Mark Twain, someone always does...)

That being said, I think the meta-analysis of decades of research is showing diet science is complicated a/f. It would not surprise me of we ultimately can create bespoke diets since we all are complex machines and different environments.

For anyone who's never heard, Michal Pollan has 7 great rules, but there's one golden rule:

"Eat food, Not too much, Mostly plants."

Here are the more "controversial" 7.

1. Don't eat anything your great grandmother wouldn't recognize as food. "When you pick up that box of portable yogurt tubes, or eat something with 15 ingredients you can't pronounce, ask yourself, "What are those things doing there?" Pollan says.

2. Don’t eat anything with more than five ingredients, or ingredients you can't pronounce.

3. Stay out of the middle of the supermarket; shop on the perimeter of the store. Real food tends to be on the outer edge of the store near the loading docks, where it can be replaced with fresh foods when it goes bad.

4. Don't eat anything that won't eventually rot. "There are exceptions -- honey -- but as a rule, things like Twinkies that never go bad aren't food," Pollan says.

5. It is not just what you eat but how you eat. "Always leave the table a little hungry," Pollan says. "Many cultures have rules that you stop eating before you are full. In Japan, they say eat until you are four-fifths full. Islamic culture has a similar rule, and in German culture they say, 'Tie off the sack before it's full.'"

6. Families traditionally ate together, around a table and not a TV, at regular meal times. It's a good tradition. Enjoy meals with the people you love. "Remember when eating between meals felt wrong?" Pollan asks.

7. Don't buy food where you buy your gasoline. In the U.S., 20% of food is eaten in the car.

Re: Does “skipping meals make you live longer”?

#42
I'm really interested in how time-restricted eating and extended fasting affects people who are very fit or don't have much weight to lose.

Many people say "low-calorie diets" extend lifespan, but I highly doubt, because once you reach a low enough bodyfat you actually experience lots of negative effects (which are actually similar to a high bodyfat). Maybe it's correlation, because the people who eat lower-calories have a lower natural metabolism which makes them age slower? But fasting isn't the same as low-calorie.

Anecdotally in my experience fasting really does help short-term: I have more energy and better mood and feel "lighter". Maybe because my body doesn't have to spend energy digesting food.

But if I fast too long or often I start to "crash". And once I start eating I usually also "crash". The latter is probably because I usually eat a big meal, but if I don't eat a big meal I would continue dropping too much weight and cause the former. Fasting also screws up my digestion, because when my digestive system restarts it starts slow and gets backed up more easily - the same meal breaking a fast leaves me bloated and lethargic, which I handle fine after a while of eating regularly.

Re: Does “skipping meals make you live longer”?

#43

I'm glad there are controlled studies that are documented so that we can have this discussion meaningfully and attempt to sequester the quacks. There's a reason why we have chi-squared and T-tests, and an entire branch of math dedicated to statistical analysis for empirical studies. (And please don't quote Mark Twain, someone always does...) That being said, I think the meta-analysis of decades of research is showing…

Twinkies are baked goods that have a shelf life of 25 days. The "never go bad" thing is a Simpsons' joke, not a reality.

Re: Does “skipping meals make you live longer”?

#44

I'm glad there are controlled studies that are documented so that we can have this discussion meaningfully and attempt to sequester the quacks. There's a reason why we have chi-squared and T-tests, and an entire branch of math dedicated to statistical analysis for empirical studies. (And please don't quote Mark Twain, someone always does...) That being said, I think the meta-analysis of decades of research is showing…

> 7. Don't buy food where you buy your gasoline. In the U.S., 20% of food is eaten in the car.

Aww man, what's wrong with Costco?

Re: Does “skipping meals make you live longer”?

#45
post #13

My doctor recommended I begin intermittent fasting - no breakfast, light lunch, normal dinner; 8 hour "eating window" per day. I've been at it for about 18 months now. About 8 months ago I started really watching how much sugar and highly processed carbs I eat (not a keto diet, just not going crazy with pasta and sweets). I've lost 50 pounds and no longer have to take my hypertension medication. If this were the olde…

Yikes, that fasting regimen is a recipe for gall stones in ten years. Maybe seek a second medical opinion.

Re: Does “skipping meals make you live longer”?

#47
post #29
post #13

My doctor recommended I begin intermittent fasting - no breakfast, light lunch, normal dinner; 8 hour "eating window" per day. I've been at it for about 18 months now. About 8 months ago I started really watching how much sugar and highly processed carbs I eat (not a keto diet, just not going crazy with pasta and sweets). I've lost 50 pounds and no longer have to take my hypertension medication. If this were the olde…

I hope you don't mind my asking, how hard was it to skip breakfast? I feel like I'd miss it, but maybe a new morning ritual can take its place...

I've alternated on and off eating breakfast a few times in my life almost entirely by accident. Once I go a few days without breakfast, assuming I am eating enough around dinner time, I stop getting my morning hunger. I'm back to eating breakfast, but I'm confident I could switch off again if I made the conscience decision to eat a bit more for dinner and take my lunch a bit earlier (I normally eat lunch around 2pm and dinner around 6-7pm).

Re: Does “skipping meals make you live longer”?

#48

Diet science is chaos. What we all need is not another fad diet or fasting strategy or super food, but rather a process that looks like a flowchart so an individual can achieve certain goals. I'd be shocked if we ever found a one-size-fits-all diet, but there should be some kind of process to design a good diet specific to an individual, using feedback from measurements like weight, blood sugar, vitamin levels, energ…

> Diet science is chaos.

100%

> What we all need is not another fad diet or fasting strategy or super food, but rather a process that looks like a flowchart so an individual can achieve certain goals.

I really don't think that's going to help. What you are treating as an engineering problem is mostly a human problem. Unless a human is psychologically programmed in a way that isn't counterproductive, few if any processes are going to allow them to improve their health or lose weight on their own.

A lot of times when people "fast", firstly they often aren't actually fasting, but secondly they are often doing so because they see it as a shortcut to gorge their brains out on whatever food they want when the time comes for them to refeed. They may lose some weight, but at a certain point they reach a new set point where they aren't going to see further improvement with the same input, and they're dumbfounded because they didn't take any time to question their original assumptions about losing weight. Giving these people a flow chart probably won't do any good. For a select few, maybe it will.

I've talked to enough people trying to lose weight, and are mystified by hitting plateaus, that I don't think they're going to have the discipline to follow a chart. People get fat not just because of the food but for a variety of psychological issues, and it just so happens those underlying issues manifest in quenching sadness, depression, and anger with addictive junk food. If someone is stuck in victimhood mentality, when they get stuck they'll make excuses to not actually do the hard work of researching, taking measurements, writing down notes, and making adjustments. Instead they'll whine, find excuses to continue eating junk in some capacity, and eventually move on to the next "host" diet fad their pathology can prey upon. It's not uncommon for people to cheat on their diet plan and to not mention it when they inquire with others, only for it to be revealed once too much time has passed. Humans have this strange penchant of being able to lie to themselves as well as others. Try coaching someone who is morbidly obese and there's a good chance you will eventually find out they were having a "cheat day" every other day with a large milkshake.

Those who actually can make a long lasting change need both a reality check and to be honest with themselves. In my opinion, it really doesn't matter that much what particular approach to take with weight loss as long as it involves keeping insulin levels relatively low. Fasting, vegan diet, carnivore, paleo, whatever. Someone who is serious about their weight loss and sheds the victim mentality will be already be able to observe, reflect, and act without a flow chart.

If you are chronically sad, depressed person with low self esteem and learned helplessness, then everything will be a silver-bullet until suddenly it's not, and a cycle of making excuses to break guidelines will just repeat.

Re: Does “skipping meals make you live longer”?

#49
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet people seem to forget about that with diets and that is why it’s useful to remind people in some cases. Your diet doesn’t matter if in the end you consume more calories than expended- you will gain weight. I see it more as a first test of reasonability of a diet, a law of weight loss if you will.

> Your diet doesn’t matter if in the end you consume more calories than expended- you will gain weight. This isn't true though, it's not the amount of calories you consume but the amount of calories your body actually accesses out of those consumed. If most of the calories you consume simply pass through or get consumed by the parasites living in your large intestine, calories consumed can exceed calories expended by…

you can basically ignore the effect of your intestinal worm and whatever else by just calculating yourself the amount of calories you need to keep the same weight. Eat 2000 calories and lose 1 pound per week? your baseline is ~2500 calories. Gained a pound? your baseline is ~1500 calories.

The fact you don't absorb it all doesn't change the principle in any way. It just mean you need to recalibrate. But since you can't measure EXACTLY how many calories you're actually eating anyway or that you can predict EXACTLY how many calories you need with a calculator, you need to calibrate anyway. So really not absorbing all calories changes literally nothing about the calorie counting method.

The biggest advantage of calorie counting is it's more reliable than looking at the balance everyday because a ton of stuff will make you a few pounds heavier/lighter at any time it fluctuates too much. The scale doesn't move for weeks and people panic but really it was just random and then they lose 5 pounds on the 5th week and they think "omg, i must have lost all the weight at once because i ate that one apple!" You just can't use a scale short term. But all you have to do is count the calories, believe in the process, and if after months it doesn't work, you adjust your estimate of how many calories you burn and change your diet based on that.

Re: Does “skipping meals make you live longer”?

#50
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your diet doesn’t matter if in the end you consume more calories than expended- you will gain weight. This isn't true though, it's not the amount of calories you consume but the amount of calories your body actually accesses out of those consumed. If most of the calories you consume simply pass through or get consumed by the parasites living in your large intestine, calories consumed can exceed calories expended by…

you can basically ignore the effect of your intestinal worm and whatever else by just calculating yourself the amount of calories you need to keep the same weight. Eat 2000 calories and lose 1 pound per week? your baseline is ~2500 calories. Gained a pound? your baseline is ~1500 calories. The fact you don't absorb it all doesn't change the principle in any way. It just mean you need to recalibrate. But since you can…

There's no shortage of folks who struggle to put on weight and operate under a hand-wavy explanation of "I have a high metabolism" when in fact it's likely they have a hormonal problem calorie counting is completely irrelevant in addressing.
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