Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore?

#41

Post by bob1029 » Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 10:19 PM UTC

zwieback wrote: post #15

Buried in the article is an important point: people care a lot about interior and not much about exterior appearance. Typical cookie-cutter suburban neighborhoods are built assuming nobody walks around in them anyway. On the inside these houses are pretty deluxe, though. Also, in the US it's very difficult to build a house out of solid wood like my house from 40s. New materials might not look as nice but are less was…

Quality of interior is so overlooked in these sorts of threads. Yes - from orbit it might look trashy.

From the pov where people actually exist, it's got 13' ceilings, plantation shutters, induction cooktop, tesla power wall, gigabit symmetric connection to the goddammit internet, dedicated home office with bookshelves and brick facade, and a monstrous 5 ton air conditioner to keep it all comfy. Oh and the sprinkler system is on an automatic timer so you don't have to even think about how shitty a typical American lawn is. You pay guys to do that for you.

Living in American suburbia is an unmitigated paradise if you can get over the principled outrage of how bland it all is in aggregate. The uniform nature of the developments is the reason why we can have nice things like fiber to homes. It makes economics of infrastructure way more acceptable and predictable.

Re: Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore?

#42

Post by rendall » Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 10:21 PM UTC

diordiderot wrote: post #33

rendall wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you imagine that?

No need for cars + greenery and public parks? Weren't there LeCorbusier style.

I dunno. East Berlin is pretty soul-crushing, with its block upon block upon block of blocky blocks. Warehouses for humans.

Re: Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore?

#43

Post by coyotespike » Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 10:23 PM UTC

iammisc wrote: post #13

We've lost all sense of aesthetics as something that exists outside an individual's mind. Aesthetics used to be an independent study of philosophers for millenia, until our modern age decided that all aesthetics are equally good. This fundamentally has to do with the embrace of relativism at all levels of society. This is going to be controversial, but in the west, the ultimate cause of the decline in objective beaut…

Many of the ugliest buildings (trashy Brutalist stuff, say) were built before relativism (however defined) became dominant. This doesn't fit your pet theory.

Further, many people have had and have objective theories of aesthetics, while not being religious.

Finally, many beautiful buildings from the Renaissance era were inspired by classic Rome and Greece. The ultimate cause of that gain in objective beauty was a rejection of Christianity and an embrace of pagan learning and ideals - that's a trollish way of putting it, but at any rate the delineation between religious and secular aesthetics is not so clear as a partisan might hope.

Many of the most intellectually interesting people I know have revived their interest in religion, especially Christianity. There is no excuse for approaching the matter simplistically.

Re: Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore?

#44

Post by UncleOxidant » Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 10:24 PM UTC

The other thing that old neighborhoods have is mature trees and landscaping. Trees old enough such that the canopy covers the street. It takes about 75 years to get most of the common deciduous trees to that size.

Re: Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore?

#45

Post by UncleOxidant » Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 10:25 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #3

> That is why the increasing cost of craftsmanship, while real, cannot account for the decline of neighborhood beauty. It's not the cost, it's the availability. I'm currently in the process of a home renovation. If you want a master craftsman to build you say, kitchen cabinets, you may have to wait years for them to be available. Or you can go to the store and buy custom built cabinets from a factory and have them in…

Cabinet making is a lost art. It used to be very common, but now most cabinetry is mass produced in factories so there aren't many people around who are skilled in the art.

Re: Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore?

#46

Post by cwdegidio » Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 10:26 PM UTC

One thing that drives me insane about modern neighborhoods is the instance in tearing down every damn tree... so you are left with endless unshaded lawn. You would think with this modern movement towards reconnecting with nature, etc we would build neighborhoods that work with the surrounding environment instead of tearing it all down and flattening everything.

Re: Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore?

#47

Post by brendoelfrendo » Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 10:29 PM UTC

zwieback wrote: post #15

Buried in the article is an important point: people care a lot about interior and not much about exterior appearance. Typical cookie-cutter suburban neighborhoods are built assuming nobody walks around in them anyway. On the inside these houses are pretty deluxe, though. Also, in the US it's very difficult to build a house out of solid wood like my house from 40s. New materials might not look as nice but are less was…

> On the inside these houses are pretty deluxe, though.

I assure you, they are not. Some materials left to the buyer's choice may be upgraded to something actually deluxe, but anything and everything else will be kept to the cheapest "builder-grade" materials that are the bare minimum fit for purpose, assembled in the quickest and cheapest way possible.

Re: Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore?

#48

Post by UncleOxidant » Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 10:31 PM UTC

lliamander wrote: post #2

I've seen some reasonably beautiful, middle class neighborhoods that were designed as recently as the early 1970's, but nothing since then. And while there are many aspects of modern interior design that I appreciate, floorplans tend to be universally terrible for anything designed since then as well. I have yet to walk into a (non-custom) home that was built since the year 2000 that I would ever want to live in.

I live in a solid little house built in 1950. One thing I really notice about an older house like this is that the closet space is quite limited. Apparently people back then didn't have so many clothes compared to now. Overall, though, I do like the hardwood floors, the solidness and quality of build compared to what I see in more recent homes.

Re: Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore?

#49

Post by philwelch » Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 10:32 PM UTC

diordiderot wrote: post #25

I imagine the lifestyle in many planned Soviet housing blocks was more pleasant than a low income American Edit: I just mean the physical environment, not political / social / economic

> Yeltsin, then 58, "roamed the aisles of Randall's nodding his head in amazement," wrote Asin. He told his fellow Russians in his entourage that if their people, who often must wait in line for most goods, saw the conditions of U.S. supermarkets, "there would be a revolution."

…

> About a year after the Russian leader left office, a Yeltsin biographer later wrote that on the plane ride to Yeltsin's next destination, Miami, he was despondent. He couldn't stop thinking about the plentiful food at the grocery store and what his countrymen had to subsist on in Russia.

…

> "When I saw those shelves crammed with hundreds, thousands of cans, cartons and goods of every possible sort, for the first time I felt quite frankly sick with despair for the Soviet people," Yeltsin wrote. "That such a potentially super-rich country as ours has been brought to a state of such poverty! It is terrible to think of it."

https://www.chron.com/neighborhood/bayarea/news/amp/When-Bor...

Re: Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore?

#50

Post by brendoelfrendo » Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 10:48 PM UTC

This article seems all over the place and I don't agree with most of it.

>For one thing, there are autos all over Paris, so at least in principle it ought to be possible to build in ways that are both highly attractive and allow for cars.

The boulevards and avenues of Paris were built by the government as infrastructure improvements and became known for their use as long parks, effectively; yes, they were built to be scenic, and the fact that they're wide enough for car traffic is a nice side effect. Modern automotive architecture, though, goes further; you need parking lots or garages, and large signage visible from the road. Developers don't really care that a roadside commercial development looks pretty; people are going to drive to Target all the same. And, of course, let's not forget that Paris wants to limit automobile traffic as much as possible.

> Diamond Head may also contain a partial answer to the larger mystery. Perhaps what modern neighborhoods are lacking is coordination...

If we're using Diamond Head as our benchmark, it looks like what most modern neighborhoods are lacking is millionaires, not coordination. Your average suburban development is going to be quite tightly coordinated: built by a single builder out of a book of facades, floorplans, and materials.

> These days, most homeowners decide to “go it alone.”

Who is "most," here? I don't think most homeowners are building custom homes; heck, a quick source I found shows that only 13% of home buyers in 2020 bought new construction[0].

The only thing I agree with here is that homes are designed around the interior first. Look at any suburban sprawl house, and you'll see a hideous mishmash of materials, window shapes and sizes, and rooflines--especially when you go past the front of the house and start looking at the parts you can't see from the street.

[0] https://www.rocketmortgage.com/learn/home-buying-statistics