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Why Mathematics is Boring (2007) [pdf]

math.ucr.edu

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Re: Why Mathematics is Boring (2007) [pdf]

#41
post #34

If you read any science papers, they start with a clear introduction with the aims, claims, importance and novelty of the work. A lot of math papers (but not all) just start off with a dry statement of what the theorems being proved are, and jump right into the proofs. I always wonder why editors don't understand the importance of these things and don't enforce them.

I actually find the forced structure of most non-math journals to be pretty terrible for readability. Why are results and methods forced to be separate? It means you have to play the 'connect the dots' game of figuring out which parts of the methods refer to which part of the results. This is obvious to the writer but incredibly challenging in some circumstances for a less-informed reader. Math papers do not have suc…

I think them being separated makes sense if you think how it's really targeted towards in-field experts. Usually if you know the field it's very clear which results come from which methods.

Not saying the status quo is optimal of course just why it is the way it is now and probably won't change soon

Re: Why Mathematics is Boring (2007) [pdf]

#42
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you'd be surprised if you gathered data on amount of cursing which goes on in colleges when students have to face math vs. English or history Also cortisol levels spike before a math exam compared to again English or history. Notoriously math is the most hated subject/field. There is no point trying to hide it. Unless one is a masochist, then it's desirable to be popular, and although the field cannot and sho…

What's this got to do with "emerging as a field"? Yes Maths is hard, yes generally people don't like to do it, but that doesn't mean it hasn't "emerged as a field".

It's self imposed because mathematicians love to use their own notation.

Math is at its core philosophy and logic, they are both hard too, but they don't get the same level of hatred that math gets because unlike mathematicians philosophers and rational thinkers take the time to explain what goes through their mind instead of condensing very complex thoughts in 20 characters strings.

Turns out there are some social rules which not even math can break, if your attitude is :

"I don't give a damn about people understanding what I am trying to say, they are all dumb and uninteresting because they don't even put the time in to learn my special notation"

You won't be very popular. And your field will be kinda hated, which is what is happening.

Re: Why Mathematics is Boring (2007) [pdf]

#43
Mathematics is not boring to those interested in it and pursuing it. It is a universal language.

Adding unnecessary complexity will take away from its "purenesss" and terseness. Language is not a barrier to entry.

You will then be graded on incomplete formulas but great storytelling.

Let's leave the storytelling to all the other fields of life.

Re: Why Mathematics is Boring (2007) [pdf]

#44
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's this got to do with "emerging as a field"? Yes Maths is hard, yes generally people don't like to do it, but that doesn't mean it hasn't "emerged as a field".

It's self imposed because mathematicians love to use their own notation. Math is at its core philosophy and logic, they are both hard too, but they don't get the same level of hatred that math gets because unlike mathematicians philosophers and rational thinkers take the time to explain what goes through their mind instead of condensing very complex thoughts in 20 characters strings. Turns out there are some social r…

What has any of this got to do with "emerging as a field"? Mathematics is alive and well and, indeed, popular. It's not like Mathematics lectures are empty or that huge numbers are shying away from engineering or physics because of the Maths involved. Like, it's doing fine, and clearly "emerged as a field" centuries ago.

I don't give a fuck if people hate Maths, it's doing fine lol. You sound like someone who has literally no connection to the field and therefore can not perceive how it is actually doing, and instead you think "wow Maths must be in a bad state if everyone hates it". But no, that is just not true...

If there is any relevant criticism of Mathematics it is much more about going extremely deep into vastly theoretical domains without any reference to how practical such solutions might be than anything to do with whether or not the lay person "enjoys Maths".

All of this is irrelevant bullshitting. Maths emerged as a field centuries or even millenia ago. Please read the wiki page on "Mathematics".

Re: Why Mathematics is Boring (2007) [pdf]

#45
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll disagree. I read many papers with mathematics in them, and I get a lot of the concepts but the symbology used doesn't make sense to me so its hard for me to understand what is exactly going on. The sentence after the equation that explains each symbol is necessary for me, and many others as well. Not everyone has taken 8 math classes to know each kroniger delta by heart.

except that mathematicians like to use shortcuts notation everywhere, shortcuts that only them understand... For example P(A|B,C) ?= P(A|B;C). Moreover, mathematician seems driven by a frugal principle. They try to condense their though in the smallest number of symbols. To me it's like writing a Perl program with the shortest amount of text. Of course, the result is right, but it's super hard to understand.

Yeah, it's like there is something in their brain which differs from non-mathematicians.

Non-mathematicians discover something and then want the largest number of people to understand that thing as well, and they want to be the ones explaining it and see the sparkle in the eyes of the ones receiving the information and "getting it" for the first time.

Mathematicians want their peers to understand first and foremost in the quickest way possible, they then rely on 3rd parties to explain it to people who they consider "normies", they slap their name on the theorem or the demonstration and further use what they consider "subordinates" to explain it to the few "normies" who want to make an effort to understand it.

Re: Why Mathematics is Boring (2007) [pdf]

#46
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's self imposed because mathematicians love to use their own notation. Math is at its core philosophy and logic, they are both hard too, but they don't get the same level of hatred that math gets because unlike mathematicians philosophers and rational thinkers take the time to explain what goes through their mind instead of condensing very complex thoughts in 20 characters strings. Turns out there are some social r…

What has any of this got to do with "emerging as a field"? Mathematics is alive and well and, indeed, popular. It's not like Mathematics lectures are empty or that huge numbers are shying away from engineering or physics because of the Maths involved. Like, it's doing fine, and clearly "emerged as a field" centuries ago. I don't give a fuck if people hate Maths, it's doing fine lol. You sound like someone who has lit…

Well, one of the GOAT mathematicians of our time, Jim Simons thinks math in America is in a bad shape.

And same goes for Terence Tao as he was unsatisfied with the low degree of collaboration between mathematicians and stepped up saying (politely) :"this sh-t has to stop"

Of course the rampant ego which is in the field prevents people from rallying around leaders like that or even arriving indipendently to the same conclusion because all these people see is the di-k measuring contest or slapping their name on a theorem.

You speak about practicality of math, what's more practical than turning Mobile, AL into a Cambridge or a Zurich.

If people in math cared about explaining their thoughts the way philosophers and rational thinkers do, then it could be possible.

Re: Why Mathematics is Boring (2007) [pdf]

#47
Ah, in math writing, it's easy enough to say more and be not boring and at times be at least interesting, inviting, even exciting!

Let's have some examples!!

(1) Dimension.

So, suppose we are in the first class in linear algebra:

"Maybe you have heard that the real line has 1 dimension, is 1 dimensional, the plane is 2 dimensional, and the space we live in is 3 dimensional. Well, that's all true enough, but in linear algebra we do better and have more: For one, we get to say clearly what is meant by dimension, that, in particular, why the line, plane, and space are 1, 2, 3 dimensional. For much more, for any positive integer n we have n-dimensional space.

Next, in linear algebra n-dimensional space is a relatively easy generalization of what we already know well in dimensions 1, 2, 3.

Why might we care? For example, we know well what distance is in dimensions 1, 2, 3, and distance in n dimensions is a straight forward generalization. In dimensions 2 and 3, we understand angle, and also that carries over to n dimensions. For more, with computing it is common to have a list of, say, 15 numbers. Well, for just one benefit, with linear algebra we get to regard that list as a point in n = 15 dimensional space, and doing so lets us do some powerful things with representing and approximating that list."

So, we get some sense of previews of coming attractions and some invitation to higher dimensions.

(2) Optimization.

"There is a subject, with a lot of development just after WWII, called linear programming (LP). The programming is in the English sense of operational planning as in war logistics and planning as was crucial in WWII. The linear is the same as in linear algebra.

The main goal, point of LP is to find how to exploit the freedom we have in doing the operations, the work to be done, to get the work done as fast or cheaply as possible, that is, to find an optimal way to do the work.

So, the subject LP is part of optimization. There have been some Nobel prizes from applications of LP and other math of optimization to economics. There have been applications of LP to feed mixing, oil refinery operation, management of large projects, and parts of transportation."

(3) The Simplex Algorithm.

"Maybe in high school algebra you saw the topic of systems of linear equations. Well, it is fair to say that the standard way to solve such a system is Gauss elimination due to C. F. Gauss.

The idea is simple: Multiplying one of the equations by some non-zero number and adding the resulting equation to another of the equations does not change the set of solutions. So, doing that in a slightly clever way results in the system of equations with a lot of zeros, about half all zeros, so that the set of solutions is obvious just by inspection.

Then for linear programming, in practice the main solution technique is the simplex algorithm, and it is just but done with optimization in mind."

(4) Completeness.

A rational number can be written as p/q for integers p and q. We will see, easily, that the rational numbers are not up to carrying the load, are not up to doing the work we need done. So we need a more powerful system of numbers -- we need the real numbers.

Here is a really simple place the rational numbers fail to do what we want: At times we consider square roots. E.g., the square root of 9 is 3. Well, what is the square root of 2? Suppose that square root were a rational number, i.e., so that

(p/q)^2 = 2

Then we have

p^2 = 2q^2

so that the left side has an even number of factors of 2 while the right side has an odd number. Tilt. Bummer! That can't be. That's a contradiction.

So, there is no rational number that is the square root of 2. So, for something really simple, just finding a square root, the rational numbers fail us, can't carry the load or do the work.

The real numbers will let us find the square root of 2 and much more. With the real numbers we get what we call completeness. A joke, basically correct, is that calculus is the elementary consequences of the completeness property of the real numbers. Then we generalize: Banach space is a complete normed linear space. Hilbert space is a complete inner product space. The Fourier transform works because of completeness. So, we move on and see how the real numbers are complete ...."

Re: Why Mathematics is Boring (2007) [pdf]

#48
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What has any of this got to do with "emerging as a field"? Mathematics is alive and well and, indeed, popular. It's not like Mathematics lectures are empty or that huge numbers are shying away from engineering or physics because of the Maths involved. Like, it's doing fine, and clearly "emerged as a field" centuries ago. I don't give a fuck if people hate Maths, it's doing fine lol. You sound like someone who has lit…

Well, one of the GOAT mathematicians of our time, Jim Simons thinks math in America is in a bad shape. And same goes for Terence Tao as he was unsatisfied with the low degree of collaboration between mathematicians and stepped up saying (politely) :"this sh-t has to stop" Of course the rampant ego which is in the field prevents people from rallying around leaders like that or even arriving indipendently to the same c…

Tbh, those people are the ones with huge egos. Mathematics is getting done on the raw ground regardless of if they are present or not. I hate this whining bullshit, if you want people to collaborate, make the tools to help people do so, rather than cringy pointless posturing.

> turning Mobile, AL into a Cambridge or a Zurich.

You are extremely naive if you think that this is something that would happen by raising general mathematics literacy. Nor is it something that we should necessarily even want to happen. Stop living in a dream land, not everyone needs to or should be a mathematician. We should aim for general literacy in statistics at most.

> If people in math cared about explaining their thoughts the way philosophers and rational thinkers do, then it could be possible.

Well, mathematics is in a much better state academically than philosophy, and literally in the UK we have ZERO philosophy education in the entirety of school. Philosophy hardly seems like an ideal to strive for, the average person know even less philosophy than mathematics and academically it is far smaller and less well funded.

Re: Why Mathematics is Boring (2007) [pdf]

#49
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, musical notation looks like gibberish to someone who did not learn it. That said, I do agree with you 100% on scientific papers. Without an explanation of the formulas to cater to a wider audience a lot of papers fall into the "and then a miracle occurs" fallacy. Not because that's what they actually do. Not at all. I say this because to a large set of readers the impenetrable math has to be taken as a divine a…

You can start explaining fractional powers with roots, e.g. x^0.5

Right, the problem is that you quickly run into the "miracle occurs" territory.

The square root of a number takes us from an area to the length of the side of the square corresponding to that area. The cube root is the same for a cube. What is the 10th root of x?

It's a number that, when multiplied by itself ten times equals x.

OK. How do you compute this number?

The best I can offer at this point is, for simplicity, a brute force search or, for faster results, a bisection search algorithm.

In other words, the "and then a miracle occurs" moment is right there. The fact that I can key these numbers into a calculator and get the answer isn't the kind of explanation I want to use for my kid. I don't want to say "once you get here you pick-up your calculator", because the legitimate question then might be "If it's magic, why don't I just pick it up at the start of the problem?"

To be clear, I don't mean "miracle" as anything other than "this shit is hard-to-impossible to explain or calculate by hand". That said, you could probably run through a quick bisection search by hand and likely converge on a low error answer in 2 to 5 cycles.

The meaning of of the e root of b explained with exponentiation and the exponentiation is explained with the root.

Re: Why Mathematics is Boring (2007) [pdf]

#50
post #45
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

except that mathematicians like to use shortcuts notation everywhere, shortcuts that only them understand... For example P(A|B,C) ?= P(A|B;C). Moreover, mathematician seems driven by a frugal principle. They try to condense their though in the smallest number of symbols. To me it's like writing a Perl program with the shortest amount of text. Of course, the result is right, but it's super hard to understand.

Yeah, it's like there is something in their brain which differs from non-mathematicians. Non-mathematicians discover something and then want the largest number of people to understand that thing as well, and they want to be the ones explaining it and see the sparkle in the eyes of the ones receiving the information and "getting it" for the first time. Mathematicians want their peers to understand first and foremost i…

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