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iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

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Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#41

Post by mithr »

packetslave wrote: post #37

Here's the thing about iPhone photography (and Android too, I suppose): if you know what a DSLR is, or the difference between DSLR and mirrorless bodies, you are not the target audience . Apple isn't trying compete with a $3500 Sony A7R4 with a $1000 90mm macro lens. They're aiming for people who see the example "macro" photos and say "neat! I want to try that". Or the people who have already bought a Moment macro le…

I think that's largely true -- if you frequently need to take professional macro shots, you'll already have your own, better setup anyhow, and won't be switching to a phone camera anytime soon. However, somewhat surprisingly (for me at least), this seems to actually be good enough to also satisfy those that do carry fancy cameras, but don't need to take macro shots that often... from https://austinmann.com/trek/iphone-13-pro-camera-review-tanz...:

> As a photographer passionate about the natural world, I carry a macro lens with me no matter what project I’m working on, just because I never know what tiny detail of interest might present itself. Now with the macro capability of the iPhone 13 Pro, I feel like I have my “in-a-pinch” macro shots covered and I can leave the rarely-used macro lens at home.

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#42

Post by throwanem »

I've tried this functionality in Halide on my 12 mini, and it's not half bad in good light. No doubt the 13s with built-in macro do better, and it's certainly nowhere near the same realm as the D850 and 105mm macro lens I use for real [1] work [2], but it's not a bad capability to have in a device that fits in a pocket.

[1] https://aaron-m.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/DSC1250-1.jpg

[2] https://aaron-m.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/DSC0772-240dp...

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#43

Post by marcellus23 »

packetslave wrote: post #37

Here's the thing about iPhone photography (and Android too, I suppose): if you know what a DSLR is, or the difference between DSLR and mirrorless bodies, you are not the target audience . Apple isn't trying compete with a $3500 Sony A7R4 with a $1000 90mm macro lens. They're aiming for people who see the example "macro" photos and say "neat! I want to try that". Or the people who have already bought a Moment macro le…

Also always worth bringing up in these discussions: the best camera is the one you have with you. A DSLR is obviously a better camera, but you usually don't have one on you 24/7.

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#44

Post by marcellus23 »

dylan604 wrote: post #36
packetslave wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't call it a "trick" but I suspect Apple is doing some focus stacking under the hood. The image pipeline in the iPhone gets more and more advanced with every IOS release. The state of the art for computational photography is pretty amazing.

If you're doing something under the hood without disclosing it but calling it something else, it's a trick. It doesn't have to be nefarious, but you are tricking the user into thinking they are doing something which they are not actually doing.

How are they not disclosing it? They talk at length, every single keynote, about all the software they build to process iPhone photos.

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#45

Post by sudosysgen »

angst_ridden wrote: post #35
sudosysgen wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a macro lens in my hands and a stabilized sensor camera. I can take a picture of the crown of my watch with a fair amount of detail. You have a 4mm lens at f/2. To get the same depth of field you'd need a 50mm lens at f/25, not f/512. You don't need to use a 50mm lens though. Macro lenses are typically 24mm or so. So you need to shoot at F12 to have the same depth of field in reality, certainly not f/512... An…

The most popular macro lenses for dSLRs are 60mm, 90mm, and 105mm. Of course, there are other focal lengths. I don't think I've ever seen a 24mm macro lens, unless we're talking micro 4/3 or some other non-35mm sensor size.

If you want to replicate the effect in the article, you'd be using a 24mm macro lens, yes. Mitakon makes multiple, and laowa makes multiple for all mounts.

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#46

Post by throwanem »

fastaguy88 wrote: post #8

It is may be worth mentioning that it is very difficult to get such amazing pictures without a very stable setup -- both for the subject and for the camera. Even if you have enough light for a high shutter speed, it can be difficult to compose a macro shot if there is any motion at all. And, as was pointed out, lighting/shadows can be tricky when the "camera" lens is just a few inches away.

Halide does focus peaking, albeit only in manual-focus mode.

In general, though, you're right - I wouldn't want to try for the same kinds of shots with a phone that I get with a DSLR. My macro rig weighs about five pounds, which sounds like a lot and is in comparison with a phone, but between the damping effect of all that mass and the ability to get a good grip with both hands, it makes for a much more stable platform overall.

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#47

Post by packetslave »

dylan604 wrote: post #36
packetslave wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't call it a "trick" but I suspect Apple is doing some focus stacking under the hood. The image pipeline in the iPhone gets more and more advanced with every IOS release. The state of the art for computational photography is pretty amazing.

If you're doing something under the hood without disclosing it but calling it something else, it's a trick. It doesn't have to be nefarious, but you are tricking the user into thinking they are doing something which they are not actually doing.

I see where you're coming from, but here's the thing: every single photo taken on a modern phone goes through a pipeline of 10+ stages of image processing, including multiple exposure merging. The iPhone isn't even taking a single photo... it's picking the best frame(s) out of a running buffer of video.

(unless you shoot in raw, and I haven't read enough yet to know what processing, if any, Apple does to ProRes/RAW photos).

Call it "tricks" if you want. I call it using technology to give the non-professional camera user the best photo possible at the time. If that bothers you, pull out the DSLR, shoot in RAW, and spend time afterwards in Photoshop/Lightroom.

edit this is also why apps like Halide (or ProCamera or Filmic Pro) exist... if you want to control more of the options instead of letting Apple choose, the capability is out there. Most users probably don't care. They just want a good photo of their kids to post on Instagram.

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#48

Post by throwanem »

defaultname wrote: post #30
sudosysgen wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a fixed issue in cameras. Stop down to F16, and use a ring flash, there you go, fixed.

Few who have ever taken macro photographs would claim this is a "fixed issue". Macro photography is a giant pain. Further the difference between a 4mm focal length and a 50mm focal length, as a function of DoF, is massively larger than that 50mm going between f2.8 to f16. You'd have to go to a hypothetical F/512 to get the same advantage in that particular realm (though in reality small apertures suffer from their ow…

I usually work around f/22, at 1/250 and of course with flash. I shot this handheld, about a year ago: https://aaron-m.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/DSC1250-1.jpg

It's a fixed issue.

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#49

Post by alistairSH »

marban wrote: post #6

While the 13 Pro's lens is undoubtedly a marvel of engineering, I feel like all those 'mind.blown' reviews must have been written by youngsters who never used a dedicated macro lens on a (D)SLR.

Certainly not the case for this review. Lux produces several well-reviewed iOS camera apps and regularly publishes articles about the iPhone camera hardware and software.

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#50

Post by packetslave »

marcellus23 wrote: post #43
packetslave wrote: post #37

Here's the thing about iPhone photography (and Android too, I suppose): if you know what a DSLR is, or the difference between DSLR and mirrorless bodies, you are not the target audience . Apple isn't trying compete with a $3500 Sony A7R4 with a $1000 90mm macro lens. They're aiming for people who see the example "macro" photos and say "neat! I want to try that". Or the people who have already bought a Moment macro le…

Also always worth bringing up in these discussions: the best camera is the one you have with you. A DSLR is obviously a better camera, but you usually don't have one on you 24/7.

The best camera you have with you with the lens you have on it at the time.

If I have to pick which of my heavy glass to carry around with me on a regular basis, the 90mm macro is going to stay on the shelf most days unless I'm specifically going out to shoot macro photos.

My iPhone Pro 13 is always going to be in my pocket.

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