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The latest campus cancellation is different

theatlantic.com

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Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#41

Post by lugged »

xwdv wrote: post #17
exar0815 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, we might know, but the people in charge choose to ignore it. Shitstorms only have power because the people in power believe they have.

The solution is for us to rise into those positions of power, and once entrenched govern our organizations to be impervious to any such mobs. There is no other solution.

The solution is to sue these people for wrongful dismissal.

The solution is to stop signing contracts with integrity clauses.

The solution is to stop working for companies without a backbone.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#42

Post by JimmyAxod »

OJFord wrote: post #20
exar0815 wrote: post #5

Twitter is a massive echo-chamber, reinforcing their belief in themselves and most people believe them because the internet-oligarchy hides and censors different outlooks on society (not that I necessarily agree with those outlooks, but still). Best example: All of the twitter-mob was hyping themselves up about the german election, the young generation being all green, all "Generation Greta" as some called it. There…

It's not really an echo chamber though, or at least it's leaky as hell. For example, visit from the UK during the Conservative party conference, and you get 'Trending in the UK - #ToryScum' even without logging in, or logging in to a profile that leans right (i.e. that trending 'hashtag' is the opposite of reinforcing an echo chamber for me if I have one) and there's not even anything particular going on that I'm awa…

Maybe you missed it:

At the Labour conference a week or so ago, an MP referred to Tories as “scum”. Yup, that’s the majority of the voting population, and the ones they are trying to win over, are ‘scum’.

I agree twitter is a hateful place, but so is the political left. But the vast majority of twitter are also very left wing.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#43

Post by inglor_cz »

umvi wrote: post #3

How do we neuter the power of Twitter mobs? Seems like they can bully and intimidate any organization from universities to corporations to GitHub projects to kowtow to their demands. Their demands are usually to fire, boycott, or boot people with opinions that run afoul of the mob. Not a healthy precedent to set. We will regret this later if we continue down this path.

Vote in or appoint new leaders who do not give a damn about them. May backfire if too callous people are the winners.

Another method, create a formal method for processing complaints from Twitter that diverts the hateful energy from individuals towards a larger decision-making body. Let us say that a random 24 people jury of MIT peers had to decide by secret ballot whether the researcher in question gets approved or disinvited, and that the result is 14:10 to keep him.

The Twitter mob cannot really do anything with such result, if individual voting behavior was anonymous.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#46

Post by ren_engineer »

umvi wrote: post #3

How do we neuter the power of Twitter mobs? Seems like they can bully and intimidate any organization from universities to corporations to GitHub projects to kowtow to their demands. Their demands are usually to fire, boycott, or boot people with opinions that run afoul of the mob. Not a healthy precedent to set. We will regret this later if we continue down this path.

the problem is that prestigious institutions are run by bureaucrats wearing its skin. For example this article says "MIT buckled", when in reality some campus admin buckled because to them it's not worth risking their comfy job over a speaker. The bureaucrats have no skin in the game, they don't benefit from thinking about long term damage to MIT or society in general. From their perspective it's logical to bow to Twitter mobs and collect their paychecks

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#47

Post by civilized »

gambiting wrote: post #44

Ultimately I blame Twitter and Twitter mobs for all insanity like this. World would be a much better place without Twitter.

I blame an administrative class that is either too cowardly to stand up to the mob, or - and I fear this is more likely - actually deranged and in complete agreement with the mob.

I say the latter is more likely because, in this case and so many others, there was so little at stake. There was no imminent risk to MIT's reputation for platforming a climate scientist speaking on climate change... merely because he had elsewhere spoken unfavorably of affirmative action.

The dreadful truth is the administrators think the activists are right. Not threatening. Morally right.

The administrators and the activists believe in the same ideology. They are enlisted in the same cause. They are on the right side of history, mowing us down with a joyful song of resistance in their hearts.

And still we praise and support these institutions.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#48

Post by fighterpilot »

civilized wrote: post #35
lotsofpulp wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a very simple solution. I struggle to see any material effect to MIT had they simply ignored these complainers.

Many such cases. That's why we need to look more closely at why the professional administrative class so eagerly does the wishes of activist mobs. Could it be that the activists and the administrators believe the same things?

That could be part of it. According to surveys the administrators are very left-wing, even more than the professors who are already almost completely left-wing themselves.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#49

Post by zeckalpha »

umvi wrote: post #3

How do we neuter the power of Twitter mobs? Seems like they can bully and intimidate any organization from universities to corporations to GitHub projects to kowtow to their demands. Their demands are usually to fire, boycott, or boot people with opinions that run afoul of the mob. Not a healthy precedent to set. We will regret this later if we continue down this path.

Ah, the Paradox of Intolerance. Who cancels the cancellers?

It’s almost as though we should reserve cancellation for those seeking to exclude people from society.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#50

Post by fighterpilot »

meheleventyone wrote: post #8
umvi wrote: post #3

How do we neuter the power of Twitter mobs? Seems like they can bully and intimidate any organization from universities to corporations to GitHub projects to kowtow to their demands. Their demands are usually to fire, boycott, or boot people with opinions that run afoul of the mob. Not a healthy precedent to set. We will regret this later if we continue down this path.

This is a free speech context right so surely the answer is to convince the mobs that this current approach is counter-productive? Edit: I’m also unsure if this was caused by people on Twitter or staff and students at MIT who are also on Twitter. It seems like the latter is more correct and the Twitter side of things might be a red herring.

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