Long Covid is overblown and often something else, says Oxford professor • Hacker News Board

Re: Long Covid is overblown and often something else, says Oxford professor

#41

Post by noduerme » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 10:21 AM UTC

nuerow wrote: post #36

noduerme wrote: post #24

Some guy says it's overblown and this is ranking on HN? Personally, I know several people who are not normally complainers or full of shit who have had some wild effects for 9-12 months after a bout of covid, including visual disturbances, extreme exhaustion, and loss of focus or mental acuity. I really don't doubt my friends who've suffered this. They're not the kind of folks who think they have made-up diseases or…

> Some guy says it's overblown and this is ranking on HN? The guy quoted for said statement is a professor of medicine of a reputable university, so he does have the authority thing sorted out. Also, I feel the quote means something different than the original interpretation. After reading the article, it seems that John Bell simply states that a) long Covid is "more complicated than people assume", and b) it's incid…

Oh he's got the "authority thing sorted out" eh? Like every doctor who ever claimed females who were hysterical needed to be vibrated to orgasm to cure their disease...? Or is his authority just on the limited level of chiropractors who spread antivax disinformation on YouTube? Just wondering what level of trust one should place in a man who suddenly catapults into world headlines by claiming millions of people are mistaken on experiencing symptoms of a novel virus.

Re: Long Covid is overblown and often something else, says Oxford professor

#42

Post by antiSingularity » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 10:22 AM UTC

noduerme wrote: post #24

Some guy says it's overblown and this is ranking on HN? Personally, I know several people who are not normally complainers or full of shit who have had some wild effects for 9-12 months after a bout of covid, including visual disturbances, extreme exhaustion, and loss of focus or mental acuity. I really don't doubt my friends who've suffered this. They're not the kind of folks who think they have made-up diseases or…

If we're going to throw anecdotes around, a very close relative of mine has had a severe reaction to the Covid Vaccine (AZ, I believe), and has been off work for 6 months and counting with a variety of health issues.

Re: Long Covid is overblown and often something else, says Oxford professor

#43

Post by celticninja » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 10:22 AM UTC

noduerme wrote: post #24

Some guy says it's overblown and this is ranking on HN? Personally, I know several people who are not normally complainers or full of shit who have had some wild effects for 9-12 months after a bout of covid, including visual disturbances, extreme exhaustion, and loss of focus or mental acuity. I really don't doubt my friends who've suffered this. They're not the kind of folks who think they have made-up diseases or…

I have a relative who is an ICU nurse, he had effects for up to 6 months afterwards. They have always been an active, outdoors type of person, the change was obvious to all around them. Fortunately it has got better, eventually. So yeah these articles, especially from this section of the press, are more likely to be based on political ideology than medical fact.

Remember these are the same media organisations that will deny climate change and find scientists who will push that agenda for them. Just because they have a pulpit, it doesn't make them correct.

Re: Long Covid is overblown and often something else, says Oxford professor

#44

Post by ZeroGravitas » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 10:23 AM UTC

danjac wrote: post #25

stuaxo wrote: post #14

The Times and Telepgraph have been minimising Covid since day one, even providing a platform for groups such as "us for them". Right now there are no mitigations for Covid in UK schools. One of the things safer schools campaigners are pointing out is the risk of long Covid (as well as hospitalisations etc). Example of Covid in one area of the UK https://mobile.twitter.com/DmodosCutter/status/1445303921300...

The question is why the Times/Telegraph (and their low-IQ equivalents such as the Mail and Express) are so keen to downplay Covid. My hunch is that their owners are losing money on property investments and are desperate to get employees back in the office, who knows.

It fits their general pattern of "anything mildly complicated that involves a government doing stuff to help the average person is a conspiracy to hurt you".

Regulations for easier trade of bananas? Regulations to encourage recycling? Human Rights? Health and Safety? Climate change plans? New school cirriculum?

You should hate and fear all these things according to them. Because if people saw government as a way to improve everyone's lives, they'd probably use it to stop powerful people doing stuff, like poisoning people, starting wars or destroying the planet for money.

So scientists saying the best way to deal with an infectious disease is to pay people to stay home, because we're all part of a society that needs to work together to reach the best outcome for all of us, is scary to them, so they attack it like they always do.

Re: Long Covid is overblown and often something else, says Oxford professor

#45

Post by tremon » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 10:24 AM UTC

stuaxo wrote: post #20

phillc73 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article states, "The ONS survey, published last week, found that 5 per cent of people who had tested positive for Covid reported at least one symptom 12 to 16 weeks after their infection." Only 5% of all COVID cases report persistent symptoms. And 3.4% of the general population report the same symptoms. Edit: Comment this is in reply to originally had 50%, now changed to 5%.

"only 5%" is one in twenty. Right now the UK is getting something like 30,000 new cases a day. This adds up to a lot, last time I checked the UK was only behind India on total cases. For whatever reason the people running the UKs actions are doing the opposite of protecting people.

last time I checked the UK was only behind India on total cases

That's easy to verify: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

Currently, India is behind the USA (#1) on total cases, UK ranks 4th, Brazil 3rd. If we look at cases/population size, UK ranks #22, but the only large country in the top 20 is the USA.

To be fair, the UK government has been fairly consistent that their target has always been to protect the NHS, not the people. As long as the hospitals aren't running beyond capacity, the UK is meeting their stated goal.

Re: Long Covid is overblown and often something else, says Oxford professor

#46

Post by tfehring » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 10:24 AM UTC

I think this study, also out of the UK, is the standard reference on long COVID symptoms. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.18.21253633v...

I’ll have to look at the survey in more detail but incidence rates would have to be really inconsistent with that study (i.e. probably an order of magnitude lower) to indicate that long COVID is anything other than a massive and serious problem.

Re: Long Covid is overblown and often something else, says Oxford professor

#47

Post by noduerme » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 10:25 AM UTC

CryptoPunk wrote: post #40

noduerme wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you (God forbid) have covid symptoms, you'll differentiate.

That's not a scientific answer. Physical symptoms of stress include: Low energy Headaches Upset stomach, including diarrhea, constipation, and nausea Aches, pains, and tense muscles Chest pain and rapid heartbeat Insomnia Frequent colds and infections Loss of sexual desire and/or ability Nervousness and shaking, ringing in the ear, cold or sweaty hands and feet Dry mouth and difficulty swallowing Clenched jaw and gri…

I've had all those symptoms during lockdown and I know I haven't had covid. My friends who have had it describe a much, much worse experience. I suppose stress alone can cause visual hallucinations on the order of the road twisting in front of your car, but I know these people and trust their judgment that they have experienced the after effects of a brain-damaging infection.

Re: Long Covid is overblown and often something else, says Oxford professor

#48

Post by antiSingularity » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 10:25 AM UTC

As a parent of two small kids, I would struggle to notice if I had "Long Covid". Most of the symptoms sound like my every day experience!

ps. In my subjective opinion, Long Covid is completely overblown. I know even fewer people that have suffered from it (0) than people who have had symptomatic Covid (2).

Re: Long Covid is overblown and often something else, says Oxford professor

#49

Post by nuerow » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 10:25 AM UTC

CryptoPunk wrote: post #40

noduerme wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you (God forbid) have covid symptoms, you'll differentiate.

That's not a scientific answer. Physical symptoms of stress include: Low energy Headaches Upset stomach, including diarrhea, constipation, and nausea Aches, pains, and tense muscles Chest pain and rapid heartbeat Insomnia Frequent colds and infections Loss of sexual desire and/or ability Nervousness and shaking, ringing in the ear, cold or sweaty hands and feet Dry mouth and difficulty swallowing Clenched jaw and gri…

> That's not a scientific answer. Physical symptoms of stress include:

I feel you inadvertently tried to misrepresent the symptoms of long Covid.

Please check wikipedia's article on long Covid for an objective and we'll sourced reference on the subject:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_COVID

Among the typical symptoms we have "fatigue, headaches, shortness of breath, anosmia (loss of smell), parosmia (distorted smell), muscle weakness, low fever and cognitive dysfunction".

Feeling fatigued alone does not pass off as long Covid, jus like coughing alone does not pass off as Covid.

For the sake of having a non-inflammatory discussion, please do your best to substantiate and source these sort of claim so that we avoid spreading disinformation.

Re: Long Covid is overblown and often something else, says Oxford professor

#50

Post by soco » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 10:26 AM UTC

JesseMReeves wrote: post #23

joeberon wrote: post #4

Well, I'm not sure what my sangha member had but she was perfectly healthy, a very active outdoors person, then she got coronavirus, and then was basically bed-ridden for about 10 months. Basically completely weak and chronically fatigued for that period. At least, I am quite sure that her long-term symptoms were due to coronavirus. I'm sure there are many false attributions though, as is bound to happen with such a…

Well, chronic fatigue syndrome is out there and has been suspected to be triggered by viral infections for long time. The community actually became quite hopeful when long covid came up that someone would finally listen. Maybe your friend has even found remedies among these long-term sufferers. The people in CFS documentaries look as bedridden as those with long covid to me. So why does long covid get this much atten…

If it's really the same thing I see only upsides: once long covid gets addressed due to this much attention, CFS will get addressed too. I call it win-win.