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Re: undefined

#41

Post by vbezhenar » Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 5:45 PM UTC

SamPatt wrote: post #15

I've been poor and rich, insanely busy and idle. Wealth removes the day to day stress, and that goes a long way. But it doesn't bring happiness itself. Same with work. Idleness is fun for a short while, then awful. We all know too much work is awful. Feeling like you have a purpose is the most important thing. I think the formula for happiness is something like: avoid poverty but recognize there are rapidly diminishi…

To each his own. I spent 1.5 years without job (I had enough reserves). It was awesome. I could play games, I could code some random stuff just for fun, I could read books for hours, I could jump in the car and spend few weeks in some village, enjoying fresh air and woods. It's not sustainable for me, so I got back to day work, but I absolutely loved this feeling when I have zero obligations, zero stress, I could do anything (or not doing anything) without any repercussions.

But I completely agree, that having money to be able to live few years without additional income is absolutely important for living stress-less life.

Now my goal is to earn enough money to be free from work obligations for the rest of my life. That's how life should be. And it's a pity that one should spend half of his life just to get to that point. And for most people that's not even possible.

Re: undefined

#42

Post by oceanplexian » Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 5:50 PM UTC

paulpauper wrote: post #30

Woberto wrote: post #14

I think this article is disingenuous, because not all things are difficult for all people. Some people really do work a few hours per week and still live a comfortable lifestyle, whether because they had a lot of help getting a comfy job (wealthy parents, lots of tutoring, nepotism, etc.) or maybe won the genetic lottery, while disadvantaged people may see it as not only difficult but maybe impossible to attain the s…

What do you mean by genetic lottery. It seems as if people with 'good genes' also work the hardest. Maybe this is because they get the most mileage from their effort, hence such positive feedback is a good incentive to keep working.

It’s weird people say this.

I have OK genes (No chronic health conditions or learning disabilities) but far from winning the lottery. Let’s say I had perfect genes, naturally athletic, better mental acuity, and wealthy parents, maybe I would be worse off in life. The fact that I had to overcome challenges and take risks helped me become the person I am.

Re: undefined

#43

Post by Woberto » Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 5:51 PM UTC

sailingparrot wrote: post #25

Woberto wrote: post #14

I think this article is disingenuous, because not all things are difficult for all people. Some people really do work a few hours per week and still live a comfortable lifestyle, whether because they had a lot of help getting a comfy job (wealthy parents, lots of tutoring, nepotism, etc.) or maybe won the genetic lottery, while disadvantaged people may see it as not only difficult but maybe impossible to attain the s…

I think you are missing the point the article is trying to make (at least how I understood it). The point is not that it is impossible to only work a few hours a week, it is indeed possible. The point is that if you do, you will not be happy, as you need difficulties, challenges and the feeling of progressing toward some goals to feel happy. Yet, most people's objective is to indeed avoid difficulties. It seems today…

Ah, but if you have a high-paying job for little work, then you get to choose your difficulties - a new challenging hobby, sport, class, etc. Some people may seek wealth in order to avoid challenges, in which case yes the advice might apply to them - find difficult things you also enjoy. All that said, I still feel like the article targeted individuals who don't get to choose their challenges, and therefore may be more likely to avoid them.

Re: undefined

#44

Post by tluyben2 » Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 5:51 PM UTC

Arainach wrote: post #36

rdiddly wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lack of empathy and imagination in this comment, not to mention no appreciation for irony. Is it so hard to imagine that someone's mental environment can turn paradise into hell? Or for that matter, hell into paradise? Imagine being born into a rich family, and knowing from day one that nothing you do really matters . Any screwups you have will be fixed immediately by daddy's money. And anything you accompl…

"Adversity gives life meaning" is a lie pushed by people who want to encourage those in adverse circumstances to know their place. If you want to feel like "nothing you do really matters", all you have to do is take a minimum wage job at any store or restaurant where management will constantly remind you that you're a replaceable cog, that if they could pay you less they would except that it would be illegal (so they…

Where do you live though? The social security makes my anecdotal poor friends have an enjoyable life while not feeling like a cog because they do not choose to work like that. It does not buy you sports cars but the social security net pays for everything so they only need money 'to live', with or without a family. This seems not at all what you are talking about; so maybe anecdotal, not US should have been more complete?

Re: undefined

#45

Post by nkingsy » Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 5:55 PM UTC

vbezhenar wrote: post #41

SamPatt wrote: post #15

I've been poor and rich, insanely busy and idle. Wealth removes the day to day stress, and that goes a long way. But it doesn't bring happiness itself. Same with work. Idleness is fun for a short while, then awful. We all know too much work is awful. Feeling like you have a purpose is the most important thing. I think the formula for happiness is something like: avoid poverty but recognize there are rapidly diminishi…

To each his own. I spent 1.5 years without job (I had enough reserves). It was awesome. I could play games, I could code some random stuff just for fun, I could read books for hours, I could jump in the car and spend few weeks in some village, enjoying fresh air and woods. It's not sustainable for me, so I got back to day work, but I absolutely loved this feeling when I have zero obligations, zero stress, I could do…

You mentioned all the not idle things in replying to a comment warning against idleness. I didn’t hear “I sat on the couch and ate ice cream for days and it was great”.

For me, the key to enjoying extended slack time is planning and putting in some effort. So basically not remaining idle for long.

Re: undefined

#46

Post by Woberto » Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 5:56 PM UTC

oceanplexian wrote: post #42

paulpauper wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by genetic lottery. It seems as if people with 'good genes' also work the hardest. Maybe this is because they get the most mileage from their effort, hence such positive feedback is a good incentive to keep working.

It’s weird people say this. I have OK genes (No chronic health conditions or learning disabilities) but far from winning the lottery. Let’s say I had perfect genes, naturally athletic, better mental acuity, and wealthy parents, maybe I would be worse off in life. The fact that I had to overcome challenges and take risks helped me become the person I am.

I just think it's that much easier to be well off with these conditions; less likely to be worse off; and easier to get back on your feet if you mess up. I think a lot of studies show this; here's a whole article on it [1].

[1] https://www.businessinsider.com/beautiful-people-make-more-m...

Re: undefined

#47

Post by bonoboTP » Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 5:57 PM UTC

paulpauper wrote: post #30

Woberto wrote: post #14

I think this article is disingenuous, because not all things are difficult for all people. Some people really do work a few hours per week and still live a comfortable lifestyle, whether because they had a lot of help getting a comfy job (wealthy parents, lots of tutoring, nepotism, etc.) or maybe won the genetic lottery, while disadvantaged people may see it as not only difficult but maybe impossible to attain the s…

What do you mean by genetic lottery. It seems as if people with 'good genes' also work the hardest. Maybe this is because they get the most mileage from their effort, hence such positive feedback is a good incentive to keep working.

In fact, depending on what you mean by "good" genes, this is no mystery, since the personality trait conscientiousness is heritable.

Re: undefined

#48

Post by TeMPOraL » Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 6:04 PM UTC

paulpauper wrote: post #27

m0llusk wrote: post #10

> It is all around us. > People no longer willing to work. What? What planet is this? What I have seen is people rearranging their lives by changing their careers, which is hard. Being aware of the gaps in your life and then changing to fill them is extremely hard. Giving up money and prestige to spend time with kids who are not always grateful, at least at first, can be extremely difficult. The big trend I am seeing…

There is a trend of the wealthy putting in longer hours than ever and working longer than ever even when they have more than enough money to live comfortably.

This varies by what you consider a lower bound of "wealthy", but at the lower end, comfortable living requires surprising amount of work to maintain.

Re: undefined

#49

Post by rdiddly » Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 6:10 PM UTC

Arainach wrote: post #36

rdiddly wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lack of empathy and imagination in this comment, not to mention no appreciation for irony. Is it so hard to imagine that someone's mental environment can turn paradise into hell? Or for that matter, hell into paradise? Imagine being born into a rich family, and knowing from day one that nothing you do really matters . Any screwups you have will be fixed immediately by daddy's money. And anything you accompl…

"Adversity gives life meaning" is a lie pushed by people who want to encourage those in adverse circumstances to know their place. If you want to feel like "nothing you do really matters", all you have to do is take a minimum wage job at any store or restaurant where management will constantly remind you that you're a replaceable cog, that if they could pay you less they would except that it would be illegal (so they…

The suckiness of being poor is a viewpoint already represented on the thread. Yeah sure, but also: my point. Repetition of yours would seem to indicate you would like only one of the two to be true, but they're both true, or as close as it comes for either of us, who I'm willing to wager have experienced neither.

Nothing actually gives life meaning by the way, that's just a shorthand I used.

Re: undefined

#50

Post by jl6 » Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 6:11 PM UTC

Arainach wrote: post #13

tluyben2 wrote: post #5

Anecdotal: the richest self made people I know work the hardest, the poorest don't work at all or as little as possible, by choice (state pays). People who inherited wealth are the unhappiest and the people who do well but not enough to be rich (I guess some type of middle class) whine about it all and want to be rich to vacation the rest of their life (but will probably never get there as they never run, just chug a…

>People who inherited wealth are the unhappiest Please. Meet more people or just read a newspaper or book. The rich love to whine about dissatisfaction, but it is in the smallest tier of unhappiness. The stress of dealing with (or putting off) healthcare you need but can't afford, being evicted or having your utilities turned off, watching those around you slowly die to a drug epidemic, living every day in fear of be…

Consider that hardship and unhappiness are not synonyms and there isn’t always a simple relationship between them.