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Are there more surviving ancient writings in Greek or Latin?

talesoftimesforgotten.com

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Re: Are there more surviving ancient writings in Greek or Latin?

#41

Maybe someone on HN knows the answer to this question, which I've wondered for a while. Are there other civilizations of similar cultural sophistication to the Greeks, Romans, and Chinese whose writings have just not been passed down and so we aren't as familiar with them? Or are the ones whose work survived roughly it, even if much of their works are lost. E.g. there doesn't seem to be much surviving Persian literat…

Try posting this question on https://reddit.com/r/askhistorians maybe? They often have in-depth, comprehensive answers, that go into the evidence we have available

edit: anyway this comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28663948 has some pointers

Re: Are there more surviving ancient writings in Greek or Latin?

#42
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s also possible that much of what was lost was frankly not worth preserving, perhaps time has acted as a great filter.

Aeschylus did great work, winning prize after prize in playwriting competitions. Only seven of his 90 or so plays survive. It'd be great to read the rest of this work and there's no particular reason to believe it's of low quality.

Yeah, I was about to make the exact same comment albeit mentioning Sophocles and his roughly 120 plays.

If you’re into classical literature, what was lost can be extremely tantalizing. I read Cicero’s De Re Publica recently, of which only about 35-ish% survived. What’s there is so interesting, both for what it says about the structure of the Roman republic as it existed, and what an educated traditional Roman of the senatorial class thought about how best to structure society and government. The concluding Dream of Scipio is enough to make you cry, not just for its extreme beauty and elegiac tone, but also for the fact that the dialogue it concludes only came down to us in a mutilated state.

While much of what was lost was surely dross, we also lost some of the great achievements of human culture too.

Re: Are there more surviving ancient writings in Greek or Latin?

#43
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

an authoritarian ruler and hatred. cultures are being erased today https://thediplomat.com/2020/10/china-doubles-down-on-xinjia... https://voelkerrechtsblog.org/a-violent-effort-to-rewrite-hi... https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/taliban-pose-threat-afghan-c...

Please don't take HN threads on flamewar tangents. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

hum, considering that a lot of that culture is not digitized or even recorded, how is that related to flamewar?

Re: Are there more surviving ancient writings in Greek or Latin?

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think of that too. I also think about how some of the really great works have stood the test of time — like Plato’s. Then there are really great works that were once common and popular but have fallen out of contemporary thought. Given the rich and documented history we do have at our disposal, it feels to me that the present era is much less diverse and more ignorant than it ought to be.

It is INSANE that we havent lost a single book of Plato's. In contrast, we lost 3/4 of Aristotle's books.

One general thing is that it is the most ‘classic’ works that are copied the most and most frequently. Early works in philosophy from Plato or even Aristotle are much more likely to survive than, say, philosophers from later antiquity (can you even think of many?) Of course that isn’t to say that all the most ancient philosophers’ works survived—we have little of Parmenides for example. Perhaps another reason for Plato and Aristotle to survive particularly is their relevance to Christian theology, but I don’t really buy that as we have more Plato than Aristotle but Christian theology is more Aristotelian.

A simple argument about mathematics or engineering can be made by going to Constantinople and looking at the Hagia Sophia. Much technical and practical mathematical ability would have been needed at the time to construct it but we have little interesting mathematics from that time (6th century). I find it improbable that we would have such mathematicians as Archimedes and Apollonius around 250BCE, then roughly nothing for 750 years, and then the Hagia Sophia. I find it more believable that the tradition of mathematics continued but that only those most ancient, foundational and well-regarded works were sufficiently reproduced to make it to the present. To be clear, I am not trying to claim that one needs the kind of mathematicians produced by Apollonius to build a large dome but rather that a society capable of continuing that kind of technical ability for so long ought to have also been supporting the continuation of technical mathematics.

One then has to wonder: if this work was being done in the Greek-speaking world, what did this continuation look like? Among the known works, some of Apollonius’ work was not really improved upon until Riemann over 2000 years after his death.

Re: Are there more surviving ancient writings in Greek or Latin?

#45
post #12
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but that’s the Greek mythological version of the Garden of Eden story. I find the reality even more interesting. What were humans thinking about 40,000 years ago, with their modern bodies and brains?

Were they thinking? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Origin_of_Consciousness_in...

Ah Julian Jaynes, the Erich von Däniken of psychology.

Re: Are there more surviving ancient writings in Greek or Latin?

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aeschylus did great work, winning prize after prize in playwriting competitions. Only seven of his 90 or so plays survive. It'd be great to read the rest of this work and there's no particular reason to believe it's of low quality.

Yeah, I was about to make the exact same comment albeit mentioning Sophocles and his roughly 120 plays. If you’re into classical literature, what was lost can be extremely tantalizing. I read Cicero’s De Re Publica recently, of which only about 35-ish% survived. What’s there is so interesting, both for what it says about the structure of the Roman republic as it existed, and what an educated traditional Roman of the…

> If you’re into classical literature, what was lost can be extremely tantalizing.

I would very much like to read Suetonius’ Lives of Famous Whores and would bet I’m not the only one.

Re: Are there more surviving ancient writings in Greek or Latin?

#47
post #27
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s also possible that much of what was lost was frankly not worth preserving, perhaps time has acted as a great filter.

Or also vice-versa, and what we have is a sample of the quantity peak, rather than quality. Perhaps Gilgamesh is the equivalent of I Dream of Jeannie. :-)

Gilgamesh definitely reads like a comic book. I would be surprised if it weren’t popular entertainment.

Re: Are there more surviving ancient writings in Greek or Latin?

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I was about to make the exact same comment albeit mentioning Sophocles and his roughly 120 plays. If you’re into classical literature, what was lost can be extremely tantalizing. I read Cicero’s De Re Publica recently, of which only about 35-ish% survived. What’s there is so interesting, both for what it says about the structure of the Roman republic as it existed, and what an educated traditional Roman of the…

> If you’re into classical literature, what was lost can be extremely tantalizing. I would very much like to read Suetonius’ Lives of Famous Whores and would bet I’m not the only one.

Or Diogenes’ On Farting.

Re: Are there more surviving ancient writings in Greek or Latin?

#49

Maybe someone on HN knows the answer to this question, which I've wondered for a while. Are there other civilizations of similar cultural sophistication to the Greeks, Romans, and Chinese whose writings have just not been passed down and so we aren't as familiar with them? Or are the ones whose work survived roughly it, even if much of their works are lost. E.g. there doesn't seem to be much surviving Persian literat…

Sanskrit in the Indian subcontinent has a long history, and not many are familiar with them. Lots of other scripts and languages in East Asia are relatively unknown (for example from Indonesia)

Re: Are there more surviving ancient writings in Greek or Latin?

#50
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s also possible that much of what was lost was frankly not worth preserving, perhaps time has acted as a great filter.

Aeschylus did great work, winning prize after prize in playwriting competitions. Only seven of his 90 or so plays survive. It'd be great to read the rest of this work and there's no particular reason to believe it's of low quality.

I don’t disagree. Back then copying manuscripts was exceedingly expensive, so it’s not unreasonable to suppose that the other 83 were good, but insufficiently so for enough copies to be made to assure survival.

At least we have Bignose’s[1] pickup and breakup manuals.

[1] Publius Ovidius Naso

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