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If AT&T Had Managed the Phone Business Like Google

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Re: If AT&T Had Managed the Phone Business Like Google

#41

Post by hellbannedguy »

paxys wrote: post #17

I don't think people realize just how expensive and congested these networks were back in the day. Phone calls cost what they did because capacity was a real constraint. It's not that they were all ethical businessmen doing a public service as the article makes them out to be (some old business tactics of AT&T, Standard Oil, American Tobacco etc. would make the most ruthless big tech exec of today blush). They simply…

It seemed like it was a few months after the government broke up the telephone monopoly; prices dropped dramitatcilly.

I know this on a personal level.

I had a crazy friend in college who thought BHT (the preservative) could cure AIDS.

His phone bill was $350-500/month. He would call researchers around the country, even Dr. Fauci. (Fauci actually listened to him once, until he found out he didn't have any credentials.) He once called France to speak with a researcher at work, over Rock Hudson's treatment. The small business owner came in steaming. He said, "Who called France. The call cost me $500.00!"

Everyone was complaining about long distance charges.

It literally seemed like in was a few months after the breakup, and long distance calls were dirt cheap.

(It might have been longer than months, but it felt that way. It was then I realized the important antitrust laws, and how monopolies need to be slapped down.)

Re: If AT&T Had Managed the Phone Business Like Google

#42

Post by B1FF_PSUVM »

paxys wrote: post #17

I don't think people realize just how expensive and congested these networks were back in the day. Phone calls cost what they did because capacity was a real constraint. It's not that they were all ethical businessmen doing a public service as the article makes them out to be (some old business tactics of AT&T, Standard Oil, American Tobacco etc. would make the most ruthless big tech exec of today blush). They simply…

> how expensive and congested these networks were back in the day.

And the reason for that is that basically you needed a wire connecting from one phone to another: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circuit_switching

On the way to modern day digital packet switching (where you just send the bits for millions of connections down massive capacity pipes) there was multiplexing, etc. but it was a long and hard road.

Re: If AT&T Had Managed the Phone Business Like Google

#43

Post by raldi »

> And just think—we can sell the information we collect to other businesses. Or to the government or the police department. Anyone, really, who’s prepared to pay.

So sick of this lazy attack on Google. If they'll sell your data to anyone who's prepared to pay, where do I sign up to purchase your search history?

Edit: If you're downvoting, please also reply.

Re: If AT&T Had Managed the Phone Business Like Google

#44

Post by Jensson »

robertlagrant wrote: post #40
Jensson wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Data collection is standard procedure as well. Most ISP's keeps a record of every website you visit, most net providers keeps a record of all locations your phone has visited etc. Only difference is that most companies just sells these to some data broker like Equifax or similar while Google uses it for their own purposes.

Not for billboard companies.

They would if they could. Billboards can't so they don't, but businesses has monetized user data as long as it has been possible.

Read this article for example about Target identifying people who were possibly pregnant to send ads and offers about baby supplies to them: https://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/magazine/shopping-habits....

Google didn't do any innovations at all in this space, they just had more data and didn't share that data with data brokers so they could do more with it.

Re: If AT&T Had Managed the Phone Business Like Google

#45

Post by fragmede »

ridaj wrote: post #29
paxys wrote: post #17

I don't think people realize just how expensive and congested these networks were back in the day. Phone calls cost what they did because capacity was a real constraint. It's not that they were all ethical businessmen doing a public service as the article makes them out to be (some old business tactics of AT&T, Standard Oil, American Tobacco etc. would make the most ruthless big tech exec of today blush). They simply…

I believe AT&T long subsidized its local operations with revenue from long distance operations. This took advantage of businesses' higher willingness to pay for long-distance in order to subsidize local access networks (as opposed to reinvesting all the long distance profits into more long distance capacity). It stopped not just because of capacity increases but because the govt created the incentive for competition…

Interesting to consider how CDNs would work in that world!

Re: If AT&T Had Managed the Phone Business Like Google

#46

Post by throwawayay02 »

raldi wrote: post #43

> And just think—we can sell the information we collect to other businesses. Or to the government or the police department. Anyone, really, who’s prepared to pay. So sick of this lazy attack on Google. If they'll sell your data to anyone who's prepared to pay, where do I sign up to purchase your search history? Edit: If you're downvoting, please also reply.

You need just some millions to your name and to contact their sales people. But to protect themselves it will be sold in a way that makes it useful to you and still have plausible deniability. Like Facebook letting you advertise to users that liked or saw something, instead of just straight telling you who they are, though it is trivial to do so with some tracking on the website.

Re: If AT&T Had Managed the Phone Business Like Google

#47

Post by beardyw »

Here in the UK the phones themselves were "free" in as much as anything ever is. The cost was included as rental in your service agreement.

The problem for Google was that the web was largely free even when they started. To have launched a paid for service would never have worked even if they wanted it to.

Re: If AT&T Had Managed the Phone Business Like Google

#48

Post by ocdtrekkie »

wombatmobile wrote: post #35

Whatever happened to google's founders, Page and Brin? Did they make any public comment when google dropped the moniker "Don't be evil"? Have they spoken publicly in favour or against "surveillance capitalism" or whatever you want to call the business model, as practised by google contemporaneously?

Larry Page has been rumored to be chilling on his own personal island at this point like a movie supervillain.

Note that while Brin and Page are no longer accountable to anyone and don't speak up because they're "retired", as Google's controlling shareholders, they're still completely in charge of Google.

Re: If AT&T Had Managed the Phone Business Like Google

#49

Post by BrandoElFollito »

hellbannedguy wrote: post #41
paxys wrote: post #17

I don't think people realize just how expensive and congested these networks were back in the day. Phone calls cost what they did because capacity was a real constraint. It's not that they were all ethical businessmen doing a public service as the article makes them out to be (some old business tactics of AT&T, Standard Oil, American Tobacco etc. would make the most ruthless big tech exec of today blush). They simply…

It seemed like it was a few months after the government broke up the telephone monopoly; prices dropped dramitatcilly. I know this on a personal level. I had a crazy friend in college who thought BHT (the preservative) could cure AIDS. His phone bill was $350-500/month. He would call researchers around the country, even Dr. Fauci. (Fauci actually listened to him once, until he found out he didn't have any credentials…

In France the company Free (internet), and then Free Mobile (mobile telvo) made revolutions by ultra cheap prices.

The heavy ISPs went to the government literally crying that it will break their business and they will lay off thousand of people.

They were sent away, wiped their tears and changed the price of a mobile contract from 80 to 10€.

They are still there and the customer is happy

Re: If AT&T Had Managed the Phone Business Like Google

#50

Post by [deleted] »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #18

This is not a good analogy at all for so many reasons. Here is something closer. Google went to University and read all books and created the worlds largest filing cabinet with an amazing index of the worlds information. They decided to allow other students to use the index to help track down the information they need for their assignment. They ask Google, where do I find information about X and Google tells them the…

[deleted]
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