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London riots / UK riots: verified areas

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Re: London riots / UK riots: verified areas

#41

Post by jerf »

Mz wrote: post #12
hugh3 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you disagree, counter-argue, don't downvote.

I'm deeply in debt and being sued by my creditors. I am deeply in debt because I and my oldest son have a genetic disorder and I figured out how to get us well when the entire world says it cannot be done. Since the entire world frames the problem the way it does, there would be financial support for keeping me and my son ill and lifelong legal drug addicts. There is no financial support for things that actually work…

I've seen you post this story a few times now; have you considered opening the detail spigot a whee bit more and posting an "Ask HN" if there's anybody here who can help you out a bit? (I would think at least naming the condition could help.) It's not all 19-year-old programmers optimizing clicks on kitten pictures around here.

And I mean the kind of help where someone works with you to share that treatment you've come up with and make some sort of living income off of that. It sounds like you're more after the former to me.

Re: London riots / UK riots: verified areas

#42

Post by Mz »

jerf wrote: post #41
Mz wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm deeply in debt and being sued by my creditors. I am deeply in debt because I and my oldest son have a genetic disorder and I figured out how to get us well when the entire world says it cannot be done. Since the entire world frames the problem the way it does, there would be financial support for keeping me and my son ill and lifelong legal drug addicts. There is no financial support for things that actually work…

I've seen you post this story a few times now; have you considered opening the detail spigot a whee bit more and posting an "Ask HN" if there's anybody here who can help you out a bit? (I would think at least naming the condition could help.) It's not all 19-year-old programmers optimizing clicks on kitten pictures around here. And I mean the kind of help where someone works with you to share that treatment you've co…

I've said it before: I have a form of cystic fibrosis, a condition with an average life expectancy in the mid- to late- thirties. I'm 46. There's a website listed in my profile where I talk some about what I have done: http://healthgazelle.com/

Would it be nice if donations came pouring in? Sure. But my preference would be to figure out how to support myself. I don't really expect to support myself from that website. I don't do much with it these days. Most people think I'm a teller of tall tales and couldn't have really gotten myself well/was never really that sick. My energy is mostly going elsewhere these days.

Edit: It wasn't intended as a "fundraiser". Just a counterargument to someone suggesting wholesale slaughter of "poor" people. I think I have redeeming value and am in fact currently a contributing member of society, in spite of (in some sense "because of") my very serious financial problems.

Re: London riots / UK riots: verified areas

#43

Post by nsimplex »

Hearing the accounts from some commuters returning home of what they witnessed on their commute; it struck me as the first time I hear a use case where Color would actually add some value. ;)

Also it is amusing to see the looters use BBM, which has been the corporate -type favoured mean of communication to loot the economy for years.

On a serious note, just heard a devastating interview with a 6th generation furniture store manager, while witnessing his family store go up in flames (you will see the pic tomorrow in most of the frontages).

It is extraordinarily terrifying to consider the implications if the thugs were a bit more organised, a bit more dispersed, a bit more armed; how much more havoc they could cause.

For example consider the implication to the economy if they start targeting more affluent locations, such the central London high streets (Oxford street, Knightsbridge...). The insurance industry has already been wiped out this year, it will be a deadly blow. To say nothing of the recently depressed UK retail performance which fuels a lot of the London economy.

Or the implications to house prices and thousands of stretched mortgage holders (London housing bubble is perhaps the only housing bubble in the world that hasn't quite popped in the last two years, and if it does at this time it will be cataclysmic) .

No doubt they already wrecked immeasurable damage to the economy, except they bankrupt the already bankrupt councils, which is the core tragedy in all of this.

Re: London riots / UK riots: verified areas

#44

Post by jrockway »

hugh3 wrote: post #13
ColinWright wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I not only disagree, I genuinely believe this doesn't not belong here. I have downvoted and flagged because I believe that kind of comment to be inappropriate on HN. Not all poor people are poor because they are somehow incapable, undeserving, or somehow unfit to live. Sometimes people are caught in circumstances beyond their control, and they are unable to get out of it. Not to understand that shows a breathtaking a…

That's a pretty good counterargument. OK, you've changed my mind, let's not kill the poor.

Did your account get hacked? This doesn't seem much like you.

Re: London riots / UK riots: verified areas

#45

Post by [deleted] »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #21
abcd_f wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what was the trigger that started the riots?

It appears a known criminal (gangs, drug-dealing) with a loaded handgun was shot by police while resisting arrest; he may or may not have shot a police officer [first] at the time of his arrest ... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/a-dead-man-a-cruc... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8687403... http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/08/mark-duggan-profile...

[deleted]

Re: London riots / UK riots: verified areas

#46

Post by guelo »

itg wrote: post #30
Fargren wrote: post #28

I'm almost embarrassed to ask, but why is this happening? I read that this started saturday as a protest against a policeman who shot someone, but that doesn't seem to be what the protests is about now. The sources I checked don't reach any kind of consensus.

Started off as a protest against a police shooting (details will depend on which side you ask) and then escalated. Now it is just vandalizing, destroying property, and looting. Some BBC commenters were saying that for the young guys, the austerity measures with a combination of feeling marginalized, unemployed, and no hope for a future plays a part in this too.

I had always been told that UK cops didn't carry guns, when/why did that change? Was it a reaction to 9/11 or 7/7?

Re: London riots / UK riots: verified areas

#47

Post by reinhardt »

Can't help but compare this to the uprising in the Middle East over the last months. Sure, the motivation is different, or even incomprehensible in the case of London. Still, they're both begging the question "why now?" and they exhibit characteristics of a highly contagious epidemic, where the original reasons are almost irrelevant. People frustrated for all sorts of different reasons find the opportunity to express violently their anger with much less fear of repercussions than usual, mostly thanks to their sheer number and decentralization. It's fascinating (or scary, depending how close you are).

Re: London riots / UK riots: verified areas

#48

Post by willyt »

Fargren wrote: post #28

I'm almost embarrassed to ask, but why is this happening? I read that this started saturday as a protest against a policeman who shot someone, but that doesn't seem to be what the protests is about now. The sources I checked don't reach any kind of consensus.

Originally it was a protest about the guy that got shot by the police. But, there's a lot of kids with nothing to lose and in the last couple of hours they've realised it's a free for all.

I'm not justifying anything here just trying to make an analysis: The reason they don't care is because they don't have a hope in hell of getting a job in mainstream society that would pay enough to get them out of the bunk bed in their parents house. London is so expensive to live in and there's a lot of poorly educated young people that are stuck with no chance of an independent life. So the attitude on the street is like 'we can't get it by getting a job and living normally so we're just gonna take it'. There's very little chance of getting caught at the moment, no reason not to. So it's not really random violence and stealing, it's probably even at some level a rational choice to do this if you are someone in this position.

The police can't cope because they don't seem to understand how the rioters are organising through BBM and because Britain has relatively fewer police officers per head of population compared to other European countries and the US.

Who knows what'll happen next. Twitter is lit up with people saying 'send in the army' at the moment which seems nuts to me but quite frankly seems like anything could happen tonight.

Re: London riots / UK riots: verified areas

#49

Post by parenthesis »

guelo wrote: post #46
itg wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Started off as a protest against a police shooting (details will depend on which side you ask) and then escalated. Now it is just vandalizing, destroying property, and looting. Some BBC commenters were saying that for the young guys, the austerity measures with a combination of feeling marginalized, unemployed, and no hope for a future plays a part in this too.

I had always been told that UK cops didn't carry guns, when/why did that change? Was it a reaction to 9/11 or 7/7?

UK police don't carry guns, except for special armed units.

Re: London riots / UK riots: verified areas

#50

Post by nsimplex »

reinhardt wrote: post #47

Can't help but compare this to the uprising in the Middle East over the last months. Sure, the motivation is different, or even incomprehensible in the case of London. Still, they're both begging the question "why now?" and they exhibit characteristics of a highly contagious epidemic, where the original reasons are almost irrelevant. People frustrated for all sorts of different reasons find the opportunity to express…

Indeed there might be some parallels, especially the fact that the London events started as a peaceful legitimate (to my mind) protest, that has been hijacked by vandals/thieves.

But the parallel stops here; most of the gangsters in the Middle Eastern protests were government stooges that got outnumbered by the civilians and consequently fizzled out.

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