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Simone Biles condemns U.S. Olympic Committee, FBI for sex-abuse crisis

reuters.com

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Re: Simone Biles condemns U.S. Olympic Committee, FBI for sex-abuse crisis

#41

Post by tolien »

orwin wrote: post #34
jasonhansel wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> while also protecting good people from ‘revenge’ unsubstantiated accusations It's important to note that such accusations are incredibly rare, and that the presence of multiple accusers (as in the Larry Nassar case) leaves little room for doubt. Of course there have been cases of false allegations of crimes against children (as in the Satanic panic), but those were due to mishandled interrogations of young children…

> mishandled interrogations of young children This is a big issue tbh. I've been through one interrogation, in a fairly peacefull country and not as a suspect, i'm sure i could've handled that poorly enough to help convict an innocent man (he was still convicted, then found not guilty). Interrogations are hard for good reasons (its easier for the police to get people off their feet and incriminate themselves), but us…

> he was still convicted, then found not guilty

Should that be charged? Convicted would imply they were found guilty, to be charged a prosecutor only needs to think they have a reasonable chance of their case succeeding at trial.

Re: Simone Biles condemns U.S. Olympic Committee, FBI for sex-abuse crisis

#42

Post by jasonlaramburu »

mc32 wrote: post #4

Any time you have kids with parents who put them under the care of authority figures you’re setting up a stage for abuse of trust and power. Abusers seeks these positions of trust and exploit them. [edit Penn State] and Sandusky, the Olympics, the Catholic Church, other religious orgs, schools, etc. There needs to be more oversight and kids need a better reporting environment while also protecting good people from ‘r…

> Any time you have kids with parents who put them under the care of authority figures you’re setting up a stage for abuse of trust and power

The same could be said of many ‘adult’ institutions, like corporations and governments. America elevates the idea of a titular, all-powerful leader (CEOs, President, etc), yet we seemingly cannot go a day without news of a new scandal or abuse of power.

Re: Simone Biles condemns U.S. Olympic Committee, FBI for sex-abuse crisis

#43

Post by thinker5555 »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #7
mc32 wrote: post #4

Any time you have kids with parents who put them under the care of authority figures you’re setting up a stage for abuse of trust and power. Abusers seeks these positions of trust and exploit them. [edit Penn State] and Sandusky, the Olympics, the Catholic Church, other religious orgs, schools, etc. There needs to be more oversight and kids need a better reporting environment while also protecting good people from ‘r…

Not sure why this is down voted. The last century has been painful for children as every venue of leadership has been used for abuse, the list is vastly longer than what you state. Understanding why abusers seek out these positions is not difficult. The solution is more transparency of interactions at every position.

> The last century has been painful for children as every venue of leadership has been used for abuse...

I'm going to preface this with "I have no hard data to back this up", but I have a feeling that this isn't a matter of the last century as being more of a problem than previous ones. Rather, I think it's the globalization of communication that has brought it to light in that time. This sort of thing has probably been going on since there have been positions of power (pretty much forever) but in the last century it's become much more easy to report on cases when they're found. And now thanks to the internet, with the ease of communication between people that you may never meet in person otherwise, corroborating stories and figuring out that there's a problem is an easier process.

It does a lot to highlight the dumpster fire that is the terrible side of the human race, and many positions of power are still powerful enough to evade consequences too much of the time, but maybe one day it will give voice enough to the oppressed and abused to be able to start making a real difference. (Not that it should be _solely_ their responsibility, but in order for the process to start, they have to be able to speak and be heard.)

Re: Simone Biles condemns U.S. Olympic Committee, FBI for sex-abuse crisis

#44

Post by smt88 »

kongin wrote: post #15
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #3

I watched a video the other day of a geologist talking about the fact that the hardest thing she had to deal with when working in Antarctica was the way her thesis advisor acted. And since she needed a letter from him to proceed then his threat of "you'll never work in science again" had some basis in reality. She talked about how deeply it impacted her but that she only reported when her 3 year old daughter said she…

>It did make me wonder about how we could restructure academia/society so that random individuals don't have so much power over other people. It seems like a recipe for disaster. Never work in a job you're not prepared to quit. The people who talk about their harrowing experiences have had a lot of less harrowing experiences that should have made them quit much earlier if they weren't living in a fairy tale. I saw it…

Wow, this is an awful take.

> Never work in a job you're not prepared to quit.

Most humans working today can't quit their job without another job already lined up. Some people (like those in the later stages of their PhD) can't quit at all. They would end up losing potentially years of progress.

> I saw it first hand when the head of my school, a woman, started berating me for trying to get into a more 'prestigious' program than the one I was in at the time. The whole meeting was so weird I started asking around for career prospects of high energy physics - two months later I dropped out and moved to be a quant and saved myself a wasted 20s.

This situation has absolutely nothing to do with what you were responding to. Changing career tracks in your early 20s isn't a big deal if you have fungible skills that are in high demand. Not everyone is in their early 20s or has high-demand skills, and that doesn't mean it's suddenly their fault that they're being abused.

Your single anecdote where you were a brave hero who wasn't "living in a fairy tale" doesn't give you some special insight or authority to tell other people they're stupid for trying to push through the early stages of a bad situation. No one knows whether or not it'll get worse or how long it will last. They do know there will be potentially severe financial and career consequences for leaving.

Re: Simone Biles condemns U.S. Olympic Committee, FBI for sex-abuse crisis

#45

Post by thinker5555 »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #40
IgorPartola wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except I don’t want my kids’ broadcast to other people. Plenty of other kids’ parents are just as problematic as the teachers. It takes one family to opt out of this for the whole thing to be moot for that classroom so this wouldn’t work.

You don't get to opt out of police wearing body cams when they arrest you. You don't get to opt out of public school teachers wearing body cams when they teach you.

They also don't give you a handy link to share the video when something does go down. Giving all the parents a way to view the video at any time is a very different proposition. Besides, the number of times you hear about a camera being shut off or obstructed, either on purpose or "accidentally" when something is hinky is afoot happens too often to think that it's _the_ solution.

Re: Simone Biles condemns U.S. Olympic Committee, FBI for sex-abuse crisis

#46

Post by IgorPartola »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #40
IgorPartola wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except I don’t want my kids’ broadcast to other people. Plenty of other kids’ parents are just as problematic as the teachers. It takes one family to opt out of this for the whole thing to be moot for that classroom so this wouldn’t work.

You don't get to opt out of police wearing body cams when they arrest you. You don't get to opt out of public school teachers wearing body cams when they teach you.

Actually I do. Schools have you sign a photo and video consent policy where you get to choose whether you do or do not consent to having pictures/video of your child taken while at school.

Police work is a strawman argument. I’ll give you another strawman: installing cameras in all the bathrooms would prevent abuse in this bathrooms, wouldn’t it? Except all the unintended terrible consequences this plan is bulletproof.

Moreover, classrooms isn’t where abuse happens, by and large. Private offices, bathrooms, locker rooms, are all much more likely places.

Re: Simone Biles condemns U.S. Olympic Committee, FBI for sex-abuse crisis

#47

Post by mc32 »

jasonlaramburu wrote: post #42
mc32 wrote: post #4

Any time you have kids with parents who put them under the care of authority figures you’re setting up a stage for abuse of trust and power. Abusers seeks these positions of trust and exploit them. [edit Penn State] and Sandusky, the Olympics, the Catholic Church, other religious orgs, schools, etc. There needs to be more oversight and kids need a better reporting environment while also protecting good people from ‘r…

> Any time you have kids with parents who put them under the care of authority figures you’re setting up a stage for abuse of trust and power The same could be said of many ‘adult’ institutions, like corporations and governments. America elevates the idea of a titular, all-powerful leader (CEOs, President, etc), yet we seemingly cannot go a day without news of a new scandal or abuse of power.

Fair, but adults have full emancipation and can make their own decisions. Children are not full adults, so they need extra care when put in these situations.

Re: Simone Biles condemns U.S. Olympic Committee, FBI for sex-abuse crisis

#48

Post by kongin »

smt88 wrote: post #44
kongin wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It did make me wonder about how we could restructure academia/society so that random individuals don't have so much power over other people. It seems like a recipe for disaster. Never work in a job you're not prepared to quit. The people who talk about their harrowing experiences have had a lot of less harrowing experiences that should have made them quit much earlier if they weren't living in a fairy tale. I saw it…

Wow, this is an awful take. > Never work in a job you're not prepared to quit. Most humans working today can't quit their job without another job already lined up. Some people (like those in the later stages of their PhD) can't quit at all. They would end up losing potentially years of progress. > I saw it first hand when the head of my school, a woman, started berating me for trying to get into a more 'prestigious'…

>Most humans working today can't quit their job without another job already lined up. Some people (like those in the later stages of their PhD) can't quit at all. They would end up losing potentially years of progress.

I was in the later stages of my PhD. It was rather easy once I got over my ego.

>This situation has absolutely nothing to do with what you were responding to. Changing career tracks in your early 20s isn't a big deal if you have fungible skills that are in high demand. Not everyone is in their early 20s or has high-demand skills, and that doesn't mean it's suddenly their fault that they're being abused.

There are plenty of unskilled jobs you can move to and you'd be no worse off than the 50% of Americans who work in them.

>Your single anecdote where you were a brave hero who wasn't "living in a fairy tale" doesn't give you some special insight or authority to tell other people they're stupid for trying to push through the early stages of a bad situation. No one knows whether or not it'll get worse or how long it will last. They do know there will be potentially severe financial and career consequences for leaving.

You sound extremely defensive, may I suggest you objectively review your situation?

Re: Simone Biles condemns U.S. Olympic Committee, FBI for sex-abuse crisis

#49

Post by throwawaymanbot »

This is a cultural issue at US gymnastics, not an FBI failing issue.

I dont feel the FBI is at fault. Like Penn state as an example.. its the powers that be at the particular college that did nothing after being told repeatedly over the years.

Re: Simone Biles condemns U.S. Olympic Committee, FBI for sex-abuse crisis

#50

Post by yhoneycomb »

ballenf wrote: post #11
bjarneh wrote: post #5

All these stories about power/sex abuse sound so similar. It always seems a ton of people knew and did nothing to stop it. Reading about this guy was like reading about Jimmy Savile or Harvey Weinstein.

Here's another one that blew me away even though I come from a family of doctors and nurses: Medical Students Practice Pelvic Exams on Anesthetized Women Without Consent https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3tuV8TJHT8 (the video is a non-sensationalist review of literature on the topic)

Happened to me. Another med student and I (both male) introduced ourselves to to the patient and asked if it would be ok if we observed her fibroid removal surgery. She consented.

Then, after the patient was anesthetize but before surgery, the fellow (subspecialist trainee) doctor told us to palpate her fibroids, and showed us how. Basically, we had to stick our whole hand into her vagina and press it against our other hand on the outside.

I felt really uncomfortable about it, but I did it anyways because I was afraid that if I didn’t the fellow doctor would give us bad marks for not participating/not showing interest.

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