Live data from Hacker News

A new book looks behind Xi Jinping’s anti-corruption campaign

economist.com

41–50 of 54 posts

Re: A new book looks behind Xi Jinping’s anti-corruption campaign

#41
post #3

This is so incredibly obvious it’s amazing that anyone would think otherwise. Say what you want about western government but I’d much rather anger the US government as a US citizen than anger the Chinese government as a Chinese citizen. In China I’d be extremely concerned about my family arrested, arbitrary trials, forced medication with debilitating drugs, bullet in my head, etc. In America we may let the Sacklers b…

>In America we may let the Sacklers buy their way out of prison

Did they actually do that, or were that just sufficiently careful so that they can't be held criminally responsible? AFAIK the company itself was convicted. While it sucks in the public eye that they weren't convicted, I'm not sure whether holding kangaroo court and/or bill of attainer to punish them (ie. "we can't really technically convict them but we can all agree they're baddies so it's okay to punish them anyways") is any better.

Re: A new book looks behind Xi Jinping’s anti-corruption campaign

#43
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In America we have people like Snowden, and other political prisoners like Ross Ulbricht. However reasonable people can debate about what they did. I would say both deserve to be free. In China the rule is Snowden. Everyone becomes Snowden if you speak any truth whatsoever to power.

Does that distinction speak for the liberal charity of Western governments, or the utter uselessness of most dissent? Maybe the feds are chill with our social media posts and placard waggling because they know nothing will come out of it. But see how quickly they move when they're compelled to.

Saying stuff on social media is not relevant to society. The only things relevant to society are groups of people. If you have millions of Twitter followers then saying something online matters because you can influence a large group.

If your ideas start a movement and those people vote, then politicians will listen. You could also hire lobbyists and use financial resources to influence. The point is ideas without influence might as well never have existed.

In China however they police and censor even individual social media posts, let alone allow influencers to gain millions of followers if they disagree with government policy. This is a deeply paranoid and illegitimate government that uses fear and violence to get its way. Very different from western democracy.

Re: A new book looks behind Xi Jinping’s anti-corruption campaign

#44

It sounds like an incredible book. I will certainly check it out. It fits well with my experience of China well - a place where Guanxi (關係)trumps all else. People fear it, hate it, but also aspire it. It's also interesting that how unlikely this book is. I've been in the West for more than 20 years, but I don't plan on speaking ill of China at all. Kudos to the author. Another book that I really enjoy that seem to be…

I am not sure the comparison to Confessions of an Economic Hitman are positive. To me, that book was such unsubstantiated garbage that I left it in the airport where I bought it. It didn’t even make it to the plane.

The fact he wrote other 4 books with "new" confessions speaks volumes about his credibility. Peddler of nonsense.

Re: A new book looks behind Xi Jinping’s anti-corruption campaign

#45
This book has fun anecdotes of elite graft, which is entertaining but not particularly useful for those interested in mechanisms of PRC corruption. Guanxi is just age old political patronage networks with Chinese characteristics, it's mundane not revelatory. The seminal book / academic for those interested in understanding PRC corruption systematically is Yuen Yuen Ang, China's Gilded Age: The Paradox of Economic Boom and Vast Corruption. The TLDR metaphor compares corruption to drugs, there are different types of corruption, with different effects. Chinese elite exchange-corruption discussed in the book is likened to steroids that boosts growth [0]. There's a reason why PRC is the only country where increased corruption is correlated to increased growth, as posited by Yukon Huan, World Bank director for China. But ultimately, drugs have harmful side effects that will eventually catch up to the body-politic, hence the anti-corruption drive. The useful takeaway from review:

>In some aspects, Mr Shum’s book supports Mr Xi’s diagnosis of China’s ills. It describes sleaze that largely predates Mr Xi’s elevation as party chief in 2012. Since then, the Xi era has witnessed an anti-corruption drive that has seen more than 1.5m officials punished. Mr Xi himself grumbles about foot-dragging officials who put parochial interests first.

...

>It argues that Mr Xi’s anti-corruption drive is as much a campaign to consolidate power as a sincere attempt to reform a rotten system.

Note "sincere attempt". Xi's anti-corruption and power consolidation doesn't have to be mutually exclusive or contradictory. Xi didn't start with 1.5M political enemies, there's no reason to be so comprehensive except sincere need to tackle a widely recognized issue. There's good reason to want to consolidate power if Xi has to step on so many toes. Frankly, a problem as large as PRC bureaucratic corruption in the 2010s can't be tackled without centralizing power.

[0] https://oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Yuen-...

Re: A new book looks behind Xi Jinping’s anti-corruption campaign

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also want to add the book is currently has 20 ratings on Amazon and 4.9 stars - I'm curious if a large flood of of negative reviews quickly get posted haha, since it is now on both the Economist and Hackernews, which I think China closely monitors.

Monitoring the Economist makes sense, but I’d be surprised if Hacker News is closely monitored as well.

I'm not so sure. He is very likely to be aware of HN:

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/xi-jinpings-book...

Re: A new book looks behind Xi Jinping’s anti-corruption campaign

#47
post #41
post #3

This is so incredibly obvious it’s amazing that anyone would think otherwise. Say what you want about western government but I’d much rather anger the US government as a US citizen than anger the Chinese government as a Chinese citizen. In China I’d be extremely concerned about my family arrested, arbitrary trials, forced medication with debilitating drugs, bullet in my head, etc. In America we may let the Sacklers b…

>In America we may let the Sacklers buy their way out of prison Did they actually do that, or were that just sufficiently careful so that they can't be held criminally responsible? AFAIK the company itself was convicted. While it sucks in the public eye that they weren't convicted, I'm not sure whether holding kangaroo court and/or bill of attainer to punish them (ie. "we can't really technically convict them but we…

I was simplifying a very complex process. One way to look at it is the Sacklers had a $15 billion fortune and they threatened to burn all of it fighting for decades in court. Alternatively they offered $5 billion to settle and prevent civil lawsuits, retaining 2/3 of their fortune.

The calculus for politicians is to take the quick win and the cash, or let someone else 30 years later get the victory while potentially taking heat now.

Whatever happened I still prefer this system to the “you said something that made me angry, 20 years hard labor followed by execution for you!” style of justice.

Re: A new book looks behind Xi Jinping’s anti-corruption campaign

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also want to add the book is currently has 20 ratings on Amazon and 4.9 stars - I'm curious if a large flood of of negative reviews quickly get posted haha, since it is now on both the Economist and Hackernews, which I think China closely monitors.

I won’t be surprised at all to see a number of suspicious negative reviews.

I live in Hong Kong. Many media outlets are closed monitored and relentlessly attacked with fake comments by the state apparatchiks. It's easy to spot, given:

1) Pervasive use of whataboutism; 2) Similar arguments in all comments, with a change or two in order or synonymous; 3) Use of Mandarin idioms translated to English, like "double confirm"; 4) Use of Mandarin sentence order translated to English, like "The USA last year in February in Afghanistan did ...".

It's become a bit of game for me. I wish I enough knowledge of NLP to make this into a model and open source it as a wumao detector.

Re: A new book looks behind Xi Jinping’s anti-corruption campaign

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monitoring the Economist makes sense, but I’d be surprised if Hacker News is closely monitored as well.

I'm not so sure. He is very likely to be aware of HN: https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/xi-jinpings-book...

I suspect the Economist has far broader readership and influence than HN, but I like the idea of him browsing these threads like the rest of us.

(President Xi, if you’re reading I’d love to see a comment from you as a “long-time lurker”. Or, even better, wow us by announcing an AI advancement here with a “Show HN” post.)

Post reply on HN