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Google Responds To Microsoft’s "Gotcha": They’re Diverting Attention

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Re: Google Responds To Microsoft’s "Gotcha": They’re Diverting Attention

#41

Post by potatolicious »

sriramk wrote: post #37

Here's the response to this response :) http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/04/gentlemen-take-this-outside... On an unrelated note, this is a very different kind of MSFT PR, and almost completely brought about by Frank Shaw. In the old days, MSFT would have put out a boring press release filled with corporate speak. Frank has brought a real-time, plain-speak, slightly aggressive approach to dealing with crises like this on…

I like this MSFT better. Not that I enjoy seeing huge mega-companies acting like children and pointing fingers, but the candidness is refreshing.

There's a fine line to be walked between "caked in corporate-speak" and "tries to be your best buddy", I think MSFT is doing well walking it.

Re: Google Responds To Microsoft’s "Gotcha": They’re Diverting Attention

#42

Post by sriramk »

sek wrote: post #40
sriramk wrote: post #37

Here's the response to this response :) http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/04/gentlemen-take-this-outside... On an unrelated note, this is a very different kind of MSFT PR, and almost completely brought about by Frank Shaw. In the old days, MSFT would have put out a boring press release filled with corporate speak. Frank has brought a real-time, plain-speak, slightly aggressive approach to dealing with crises like this on…

But he doesn't make a good impression, soon he has to explain why Microsoft is attacking android with patents. There was no "gotcha" and these people on Techcrunch see this whole thing as a reality show. It is sad because this is serious stuff, Microsoft is fighting Google with unfair methods.

Unfair is all relative - people think it is unfair Google is giving away Android for free by funding it with its search revenue. I don't agree with what MSFT is doing with Android patents but they have a stock answer which I'm sure they'll repeat.

Re: Google Responds To Microsoft’s "Gotcha": They’re Diverting Attention

#43

Post by shareme »

Folks, the longer this goes on more startups lose.. TC should know better than to get involved in one-upmanship that hurts startups..

Whose startup among HN readers can afford patent lawsuits say if either MSFT or Google come knocking?

So where is the coverage of how dismal the current patent reform legislation at TC?

Re: Google Responds To Microsoft’s "Gotcha": They’re Diverting Attention

#44

Post by sriramk »

potatolicious wrote: post #41
sriramk wrote: post #37

Here's the response to this response :) http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/04/gentlemen-take-this-outside... On an unrelated note, this is a very different kind of MSFT PR, and almost completely brought about by Frank Shaw. In the old days, MSFT would have put out a boring press release filled with corporate speak. Frank has brought a real-time, plain-speak, slightly aggressive approach to dealing with crises like this on…

I like this MSFT better. Not that I enjoy seeing huge mega-companies acting like children and pointing fingers, but the candidness is refreshing. There's a fine line to be walked between "caked in corporate-speak" and "tries to be your best buddy", I think MSFT is doing well walking it.

Also note how responsive he is on Twitter (MG Siegler just tweeted him a question and got back an answer instantly). Somehow, we are in this weird world where MSFT is talking to everyone through a human face and Google has disappeared behind PR statements. That's quite a change.

Re: Google Responds To Microsoft’s "Gotcha": They’re Diverting Attention

#45

Post by cube13 »

juiceandjuice wrote: post #35
cube13 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Google wanted the patents to fight back against Microsoft, since Microsoft is the one probably leveraging the greatest patent tax against Android devices. A joint ownership of the patents would be useless against Microsof. They could leverage them against Apple, or Oracle, or other parties that didn't own them, however, but even that could be to Microsoft's benefit. Here's the problem: Even if Google won the Novell…

I can't believe Microsoft is licensing all of them, otherwise they wouldn't care about them as much. In fact, they probably wouldn't have even bothered to buy them, especially if they thought the DoJ would rule in the way that they did. The DoJ ruling merely means they can't really leverage those patents against Google to stifle them more, which I'm sure the legal departments of Apple, Microsoft, and Oracle would hav…

>The DoJ ruling merely means they can't really leverage those patents against Google to stifle them more, which I'm sure the legal departments of Apple, Microsoft, and Oracle would have loved to do. It means those patents are less of a threat, but it wasn't a win for Google either.

No. The DoJ ruling means that they can't leverage the patents against Linux. The OIN patent license only applies to Linux code. That doesn't necessarily apply to the Android UI, for example.

That's the primary reason that I think the DoJ would have made the same ruling. It gives the Linux code the same protections that they had with Novell.

Re: Google Responds To Microsoft’s "Gotcha": They’re Diverting Attention

#47

Post by redthrowaway »

giberson wrote: post #11

Wait wait wait wait. A joint acquisition of the Novell patents that gave all parties a license would have eliminated any protection these patents could offer to Android against attacks from Microsoft and its bidding partners. Having the license to the patent means you get to use the patented technology--no one can come after you. That's the protection, you get to use it. This is bullshit, Google didn't decline the of…

Microsoft has a set of patents. We'll call them A. Google has a few patents. We'll call them B. The Novell auction was for a third set, C.

Now |A| > |C| > |B|, by a long shot. Defensive patents work by allowing you to countersue anyone who sues you, and claim they are infringing upon your patents. In the end, the parties settle out of court and agree to a cross-licensing deal, which amounts to, "I won't sue you and you won't sue me."

Because of the general stupidity of most patents issued, this is a game of quantity, not quality. Thus having 10,000 patents is far preferable to having 1,000, even if those 1,000 are for genuine innovations. This brings us back to our sets of patents.

Google doesn't have much to defend themselves with, hence their desire to acquire C. However, if they jointly acquired C with Microsoft, those patents could only be used to defend themselves against entities other than Microsoft. As MS has the rights to C, Google couldn't sue them for infringement, whereas Microsoft could still sue Google for infringement on A. The only thing Google would have gained is protection from Microsoft suing them for infringement of C. Since Google was primarily concerned about Microsoft suing them, this wouldn't have done them any good. It would have amounted to a multi-billion dollar settlement with Microsoft, only against suits based on C. It simply wasn't worth it for them, as they would have been sued anyway and still had no protection.

Re: Google Responds To Microsoft’s "Gotcha": They’re Diverting Attention

#48

Post by redthrowaway »

>The Nortel patent purse had over 6,000 patents, but InterDigital has over 8,800. If the winning bid on Nortel was $4.5 billion, InterDigital should be well north of $5 billion.

That's $5BB that won't be used to create new products and technologies. It's $5BB that won't be used to hire new employees, and it's $5BB taken out of the pockets of shareholders. At least taxes go back into the economy. They might as well throw the money in a pile and set it alight.

Re: Google Responds To Microsoft’s "Gotcha": They’re Diverting Attention

#49

Post by sek »

sriramk wrote: post #42
sek wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But he doesn't make a good impression, soon he has to explain why Microsoft is attacking android with patents. There was no "gotcha" and these people on Techcrunch see this whole thing as a reality show. It is sad because this is serious stuff, Microsoft is fighting Google with unfair methods.

Unfair is all relative - people think it is unfair Google is giving away Android for free by funding it with its search revenue. I don't agree with what MSFT is doing with Android patents but they have a stock answer which I'm sure they'll repeat.

What are you doing on Hacker news? This is all about disrupting industries trough a better product. Android is free so this is obviously an improvement to something you have to pay for, or do you call Linux unfair? When Microsoft can't build a product that justifies a higher price that is their problem, Apple figured that out so it isn't impossible. Unfair (or use another word) is in my eyes trying to beat Google in anything other than the Product itself, for example forcing Android producers into paying extra with a broken patent system.

Re: Google Responds To Microsoft’s "Gotcha": They’re Diverting Attention

#50

Post by sriramk »

sek wrote: post #49
sriramk wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfair is all relative - people think it is unfair Google is giving away Android for free by funding it with its search revenue. I don't agree with what MSFT is doing with Android patents but they have a stock answer which I'm sure they'll repeat.

What are you doing on Hacker news? This is all about disrupting industries trough a better product. Android is free so this is obviously an improvement to something you have to pay for, or do you call Linux unfair? When Microsoft can't build a product that justifies a higher price that is their problem, Apple figured that out so it isn't impossible. Unfair (or use another word) is in my eyes trying to beat Google in…

First, minor nitpick - Apple is going after Android with various lawsuits as well. But let's keep that aside.

Contrast these arguments - back in the 90s, MSFT was accused of killing off Netscape by essentially giving away a browser for free using the revenue from Windows and Office. One could argue that Google is doing the same thing, funding Android with its revenues from ads.

Let's forget Android for a second -look at turn-by-turn navigation. That's an expensive product to build but Google, by giving it away for free (again, subsidized by its other revenues) and is causing serious trouble to other companies which have the misfortune of not having an alternative revenue source.

Is it 'fair' that Google can basically disrupt industries by giving away things for free just because it gets money through another source? You can see how that argument could be made, whether it is right or wrong.

I personally don't think any of this is either 'right' or 'wrong'. It's all business between corporate behemoths.

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