‘Havana syndrome’ and the mystery of the microwaves • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Havana syndrome’ and the mystery of the microwaves

#41

Post by Emma_Goldman » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 1:10 PM UTC

oxymoran wrote: post #27

api wrote: post #4

The biggest mystery to me is why the hell someone would do this. What are they gaining? Are they trying to frame someone else? Just disrupt operations? For the spy vs spy lulz? Second biggest mystery is how they haven't just triangulated these. Someone in signals intelligence told me once that signal jamming is not a big problem on the battlefield because a signal jammer is also a bright RF beacon that says "shoot mi…

This is why: “ Five years on, reports now number in the hundreds and, the BBC has been told, span every continent, leaving a real impact on the US's ability to operate overseas. ”

Exactly. Russia's modus operandi for dealing with the West is asymmetric warfare designed to interrupt, hamstring and confuse, without ever crossing the line into conventional warfare - which Russia cannot finance or win. This would fit neatly into that category, not that I have any idea of who is responsible. The point is that if there is an attacker, the motives are far from inscrutable.

Re: ‘Havana syndrome’ and the mystery of the microwaves

#42

Post by thatjoeoverthr » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 1:10 PM UTC

akyu wrote: post #21

thatjoeoverthr wrote: post #6

Where’s the part where they send a device to detect microwaves or sonic waves, and find them? How come it doesn’t occur to journalists to ask this? As per the article, they found the signal in Moscow, and there weren’t even symptoms to prompt them to do so. Another commenter mentioned “triangulation”. It’s less than that. There is no reported observation of a signal of any kind. History Channel “ghost hunters” are mo…

You're assuming that they would get an answer if they asked those questions. I highly doubt that.

You’re assuming I’m assuming that ;)

It’s quite routine for journalists to ask questions, receive no answer or receive a refusal to answer, and note that the exchange occurred.

On this topic, one finds big long articles with fun, colorful cartoons but not a single use of the word “detect”.

Re: ‘Havana syndrome’ and the mystery of the microwaves

#43

Post by tgflynn » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 1:11 PM UTC

thatjoeoverthr wrote: post #6

Where’s the part where they send a device to detect microwaves or sonic waves, and find them? How come it doesn’t occur to journalists to ask this? As per the article, they found the signal in Moscow, and there weren’t even symptoms to prompt them to do so. Another commenter mentioned “triangulation”. It’s less than that. There is no reported observation of a signal of any kind. History Channel “ghost hunters” are mo…

There's this:

> Prof Golomb says high levels of radiation were recorded by family members of personnel in Guangzhou using commercially available equipment. "The needle went off the top of the available readings." But she says the State Department told its own employees that the measurements they had taken off their own back were classified.

But that's the only mention of physical measurements in the entire long article. It should be relatively easy to equip a large number of potential targets with a handheld device capable of measuring and recording peak RF levels and that would at least allow the government to know whether or not it is on the right track. It does seem strange that this hasn't been done already and the whole thing remains just as mysterious now as when the public first heard about it.

Re: ‘Havana syndrome’ and the mystery of the microwaves

#44

Post by thatjoeoverthr » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 1:14 PM UTC

akyu wrote: post #22

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, detecing microwaves is easy, and the equipment cheap and available to everyone (relatively cheap, compared to other stuff embassys buy). Depending on the frequency, it should be detectable even with $10 rtl-sdr sticks with direct sampling. I'm fairly sure that most electrical engineering students could find out if their dorm rooms were targeted by microwaves, so why not the embassy of one of the richest and most…

They do detect them.

Mystery solved..?

Re: ‘Havana syndrome’ and the mystery of the microwaves

#45

Post by jonathanstrange » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 1:16 PM UTC

api wrote: post #4

The biggest mystery to me is why the hell someone would do this. What are they gaining? Are they trying to frame someone else? Just disrupt operations? For the spy vs spy lulz? Second biggest mystery is how they haven't just triangulated these. Someone in signals intelligence told me once that signal jamming is not a big problem on the battlefield because a signal jammer is also a bright RF beacon that says "shoot mi…

One reason to do this is to disrupt activities of foreign intelligence services, increase their paranoia, decrease their morale. The key is to do it randomly and not too often. That is under the assumption it's not a side-effect of surveillance tools, which would also be possible.

To give you a comparison, the East-German Stasi used to enter the homes of dissidents and do things like re-arranging towels, replacing fresh milk with rotten milk, etc. They also occasionally forced or convinced personal physicians to hand out the wrong medication to dissidents, worsening conditions of the patients or creating strange side-effects. They also radiated political detainees in prison to cause cancer. These were called Zersetzungsmaßnahmen.

I'd consider it credible that modern successors of the KGB like GRU and SRV, as well as related or allied agencies, could do something nefarious using technical equipment. That's why US agencies are investigating the reports, I guess.

Re: ‘Havana syndrome’ and the mystery of the microwaves

#46

Post by tyingq » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 1:16 PM UTC

jjoonathan wrote: post #33

akyu wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do detect them.

So what do they find when they send people to the originating location?

Unoccupied waters where a ship might have once been?

Re: ‘Havana syndrome’ and the mystery of the microwaves

#47

Post by ladyattis » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 1:18 PM UTC

Why do folks keep insisting it's microwaves that cause the illness when no one has found any physical evidence for that? This is just such a hysterical nonsense story in my opinion all meant to grab attention with nothing to show for it.

Re: ‘Havana syndrome’ and the mystery of the microwaves

#48

Post by thatjoeoverthr » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 1:19 PM UTC

oxymoran wrote: post #31

tiahura wrote: post #3

I would assume that shortly after Havana, most embassies installed equipment to detect sonic or microwave blasts. Given that we haven’t heard anything about these sensors being tripped, I’m going to assume anything after Havana is mass hysteria.

Why would you assume that we would hear anything if the sensors were tripped? It would be considered an act of war and would promote real hysteria in the general population if that were the case. It’s far more plausible that it was an attack that is being covered up for national security purposes.

If it’s safe to pretend it’s not happening than it isn’t a useful attack. If they can detect it, they should be able to apply some kind of countermeasure, shielding or (if necessary) threat or sanction.

Re: ‘Havana syndrome’ and the mystery of the microwaves

#49

Post by coliveira » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 1:20 PM UTC

boomboomsubban wrote: post #35

I say something like this every time I see a Havana syndrome article, but their summaries of the US National Academies of Sciences report is just ridiculous. >The panel looked at psychological and other causes, but concluded that directed, high energy, pulsed microwaves were most likely responsible for some of the cases, The panels ruling on a psychological cause was basically "all the available evidence fits it bein…

It is not a mystery, the media is creating a narrative, and acknowledging this fact would prevent them from continuing this narrative that seems to be profitable. Now, millions of people around the world believe in the existence of a mysterious "Havana syndrome", and will continue reading articles that try to "investigate" it.

Re: ‘Havana syndrome’ and the mystery of the microwaves

#50

Post by ethbr0 » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 1:22 PM UTC

tgflynn wrote: post #43

thatjoeoverthr wrote: post #6

Where’s the part where they send a device to detect microwaves or sonic waves, and find them? How come it doesn’t occur to journalists to ask this? As per the article, they found the signal in Moscow, and there weren’t even symptoms to prompt them to do so. Another commenter mentioned “triangulation”. It’s less than that. There is no reported observation of a signal of any kind. History Channel “ghost hunters” are mo…

There's this: > Prof Golomb says high levels of radiation were recorded by family members of personnel in Guangzhou using commercially available equipment. "The needle went off the top of the available readings." But she says the State Department told its own employees that the measurements they had taken off their own back were classified. But that's the only mention of physical measurements in the entire long artic…

I'd imagine part of it is institutional. The State Department is not what I'd consider a bastion of technically-adept people.

This is the org which, from all accounts, can't even run email or basic IT reliably.