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Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

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Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#41

Post by newsclues »

nerdbaggy wrote: post #33
jkingsman wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

THC is a vasodilator (it makes your blood vessels relax and become larger) which is thought to cause reflex tachycardia which means your heart has to beat faster in order to keep blood circulating because the "pipes" (blood vessels) have suddenly become larger. The vasodilation is also the cause of bloodshot eyes. There is also something to said for the anxiety which high THC cannabis can cause, as well as a sort of…

Sounds like why my heart beats faster when I drink

I think that is thinning the blood but a similar result

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#42

Post by doublerabbit »

everdrive wrote: post #21

I'm not a doctor, so please note that this is a genuine question, and not a rhetorical speculation: That said, smoking has always made my heart race. I'd be curious to know if this is common for people, and if it is common, then whether or not this could be a contributing factor. >edit, sorry, that should have said "I'm not a doctor."

Anecdotally, such conditions have been common in strains that have high amounts of THC, and not much CBD. Haze was a big thing in the UK for a long while, as was Skunk. Both strains have high THC and little to-no CBD and these strains would cause me to flip badly. My friend who swears to never touch it again after he tried once and had bad-trip. When compared to other strains with more CBD, I would obtain more of the beneficial effects.

And that it could also be linked to if the strain is Indica (in-da-couch) or Sativa with the same % of THC. Cannabis science an interesting field.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#43

Post by doublerabbit »

datavirtue wrote: post #38
crazy_horse wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can lead to anxiety and panic attacks due to the high levels of THC relative to the past.

Agreed. I'm always on the lookout for what are now low percentage strains. Perhaps I'm an odd ball lightweight but the current trend of ingesting as much THC as an possible in as little smoke as possible is not something I look forward to. 20+% come the fuck on...I'm not trying to make hash out of it.

It's the same with Wine, once upon a time a bottle was only 9-10% in alcohol volume and now an average bottle in the super market is up in the 13-14% range.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#44

Post by halfmatthalfcat »

benatkin wrote: post #29
halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like therapy would be very useful then. If you’re having to self-medicate to maintain sanity, the substances are only a crutch. Speaking from personal experience.

Sweeping generalizations based on personal experience aren't much better than sweeping generalizations that aren't based on personal experience.

I don't think it's a stretch or generalization to mention mental health services to people who may be struggling with mental health issues.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#45

Post by zardo »

datavirtue wrote: post #31
eurasiantiger wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It very likely is due to smoke inhalation or even mixing with tobacco; IIRC inhalation of any kind of micro- and nanoparticles is linked to higher risk of myocardial infarction.

I got a few new sativa vapes recently and was hitting them both pretty hard. I got smacked with a really disturbing heart issue that felt like it was being severely over worked. It was so bad I was on my front porch in n the dark resolved to dying. I didn't in now what was going to happen. I'll admit that I'm a lightweight but I had to stop with the "turpine pens." Now I just smoke dry herb because I know how to regu…

Of course I can't rule out that you actually had a cardiovascular problem, but of the people who get really high and think they have a medical problem, it's usually an anxiety attack.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#46

Post by 52-6F-62 »

hirundo wrote: post #40
52-6F-62 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was an independent variable that was controlled as stated in the abstract and I pointed out already: they selected for people that had "abusive" relationships with cannabis according to whatever standard they chose. They firmly state the presence of a link between heart attacks and cannabis consumption without outlining whether the selected group had any other existing health or genetic issues. Maybe the data d…

For link, read correlation, not connection. They can only show evidence of correlation with this design, not connection. I think you're misunderstanding the nature of an independent variable. To be independent it has to be controlled by the experimenter. If an abusive relationship with cannabis was an independent variable, subjects would have to be assigned an abusive relationship with cannabis, which is obviously no…

I'm not misunderstanding.

The word link literally means a connection or relationship.

There is neither of those two things in this data, except that their 1.3% of "abusive" smokers had heart attacks versus 0.5% of non-smokers.

You cannot draw a link from that alone, but they are stating there is a link.

You can state there is a link between diet and heart disease, because there's a proven causal relationship. Not so in this case.

Also, the variable was independent because they study stated that they only included "abusive" smokers, implying they excluded casual or occasional smokers.

They split the data on that variable. That's a selection process.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#47

Post by hirundo »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #46
hirundo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For link, read correlation, not connection. They can only show evidence of correlation with this design, not connection. I think you're misunderstanding the nature of an independent variable. To be independent it has to be controlled by the experimenter. If an abusive relationship with cannabis was an independent variable, subjects would have to be assigned an abusive relationship with cannabis, which is obviously no…

I'm not misunderstanding. The word link literally means a connection or relationship. There is neither of those two things in this data, except that their 1.3% of "abusive" smokers had heart attacks versus 0.5% of non-smokers. You cannot draw a link from that alone, but they are stating there is a link. You can state there is a link between diet and heart disease, because there's a proven causal relationship. Not so…

You are describing epidemiology, which is not an experimental science, because it does not have the luxury of independent variables.

And you are correct that it is weaker at establishing links than a controlled experiment. So it's mostly a resort for when an RCT is impractical or as a way to select which RCTs to pursue.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#49

Post by dylan604 »

zerobits wrote: post #18

It’s strange that all of the comments are looking for ways to dismiss this result (and this seems to happen generally with negative cannabis findings online). Is it not entirely possible a drug and method of consumption which stresses the cardiovascular system increases odds of an adverse cardiovascular event?

We should have had these kinds of studies nearly 100 years ago, but the Reefer Madness era bans stunted our science based knowledge of the plant. Within just a short time frame of the rules being relaxed, we've learned how to extract so many different compounds from this one plant from CBD, CBG, CBN, Delta-8, Delta-9, Delta-10, etc. We now know which compounds get you high, and which ones can be used without fear of testing positive.

There seems to be a mad rush on people being able to do research and be first to publish, so I'd expect some results to be questionable. However, isn't that exactly how it is supposed to work? Do a test, release the results, others verify/validate. If something comes up questionable, refine the test, release the results, verify/validate again.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#50

Post by goldenkey »

zardo wrote: post #45
datavirtue wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got a few new sativa vapes recently and was hitting them both pretty hard. I got smacked with a really disturbing heart issue that felt like it was being severely over worked. It was so bad I was on my front porch in n the dark resolved to dying. I didn't in now what was going to happen. I'll admit that I'm a lightweight but I had to stop with the "turpine pens." Now I just smoke dry herb because I know how to regu…

Of course I can't rule out that you actually had a cardiovascular problem, but of the people who get really high and think they have a medical problem, it's usually an anxiety attack.

Everyone likes to say that but as a cannabis user for 20+ years, most cannabis does raise HR when it "hits." It also can cause anxiety. Those two things combined can make HR even higher through a feedback loop. But it's disingenuous to think it doesn't raise HR in higher doses - that it's just an anxiety issue. Indica or sativa, they both cause a HR increase during intake. In my experience, it can taper off and one still remains high. But other times, the effect can last a while and the anxiety can turn into a full blown panic attack.

Imagine the scenario where someone legitimately has a HR of 150 from Cannabis. They have anxiety about their heart rate and possibly dying, and their friend OP keeps insisting that they just need to "calm down and be cool" because this is "all in your head." That's what ignorant friends are for :-)

"One of the most consistent effects of cannabis smoking on heart is 20% to 100% increase in HR which can last up to 2–3 hours, often accompanied by a slight increase in supine blood pressure. This effect of cannabis on HR is thought to be due to cannabis induced vasodilation causing reflex tachycardia (15,16)."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5542986/

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