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Facebook apology as AI labels black men 'primates'

bbc.com

41–50 of 291 posts

Re: Facebook apology as AI labels black men 'primates'

#41

I mean... It's not wrong, we're all primates.

How would you feel if you’d be labeled supremacist (only if your skin complexion was white)? After all the human species is the supreme species... Oh well I guess that wouldn’t bother you and you’d take it as a compliment. Now imagine the reverse of a compliment, to be given one of the labels that has been used again and again to belittle you, to make you feel inferior (only to make others feel above you), a label wh…

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Re: Facebook apology as AI labels black men 'primates'

#42

I mean... It's not wrong, we're all primates.

Oh f-ing hell. Do we have to go through this on this thread too? Just like the last one?

Labeling people of African descent as primates is INSANELY racist. This is not a grey area.

It doesn’t matter if it may be correct from an anthropological perspective, it is NEVER OK in general society.

No one should be defending this. As the (current) top comment points it this has caused huge problems twice in the past. Not to mention all the other incidents where poorly trained AI or badly written software just flat out ignores people with dark skin exist. Like that case a few years ago where a ‘face unlock’ feature on some computer wouldn’t even detect the face of a black person.

Please. Don’t defend this. Don’t make excuses. It should have been tested for. It should never have been released (or previewed, or anything else) with this behavior.

And the fact it was is shameful.

Re: Facebook apology as AI labels black men 'primates'

#43

I mean... It's not wrong, we're all primates.

How would you feel if you’d be labeled supremacist (only if your skin complexion was white)? After all the human species is the supreme species... Oh well I guess that wouldn’t bother you and you’d take it as a compliment. Now imagine the reverse of a compliment, to be given one of the labels that has been used again and again to belittle you, to make you feel inferior (only to make others feel above you), a label wh…

I think the core difference is that one is a honest mistake and the latter is just deprecating. It’s fine if AI calls me “white treehouse” but it’s less fine if it labels me “stupid”, even if my face really looks stupid.

The reality is that people have become extremely sensitive about some topics even if they’re not the recipients of the perceived insult.

Re: Facebook apology as AI labels black men 'primates'

#44
post #15

This happened to both Google Photos and Flickr too. Which makes it an inexcusable mistake to make in 2021 - how are you not testing for this? Google Photos in 2015: https://www.wired.com/story/when-it-comes-to-gorillas-google... Flickr in 2015: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/ne...

You can't just "test" a neural network like that. For all you know they tested a thousand pictures of Chimpanzees and Gorillas against the network, but for some reason the NN decided to classify the photo differently because the subject was standing in front of the wrong kind of tree or wearing a funny-colored hat.

There's no super reliable way to prevent this (with current tech) other than forbidding that output entirely.

Re: Facebook apology as AI labels black men 'primates'

#45
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parent's point is not irrelevant though, did the AI label only people of one specific racial background as primates? The article doesn't really provide any details as it's only a few lines long. The word "primate" in itself is not a slur but it can be used as a slur, as you said, depending on the context, however not much context was given in the article.

That's interesting. It may have done the same with white people the same amount but nobody called the BBC to whine, or the BBC didn't care about that.

If it had tagged all humans in all photos as primates; this wouldn't be newsworthy- but it didn’t do that. It only tagged black people. Which if you can empathise with others, is understandably offensive.

Re: Facebook apology as AI labels black men 'primates'

#47
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Skewed training set, very few dark skinned human faces.

Got a source for that?

While I don't have a source, it seems clear that with sufficient training data they could do better at avoiding this mistake. This should not be hard.

Re: Facebook apology as AI labels black men 'primates'

#49
The video features white and black men. It seems like concluding the algorithm is calling black men primates is the same kind of error people are accusing the algorithm/Facebook of. i.e. The reason you think it's racist is because you assume it's talking about black people specifically suggesting you think the word is more apt to describe black people.

Primates and humans are similar labels. This was almost certainly not intentional. Video classifiers are going to make mistakes - sometimes crude or offensive ones. I don't get outrage over labeling errors like this. Facebook should fix the issue - but they shouldn't apologize. It only encourages grievance seekers.

Re: Facebook apology as AI labels black men 'primates'

#50
post #23
post #15

This happened to both Google Photos and Flickr too. Which makes it an inexcusable mistake to make in 2021 - how are you not testing for this? Google Photos in 2015: https://www.wired.com/story/when-it-comes-to-gorillas-google... Flickr in 2015: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/ne...

Why are you so sure they aren't testing for it? Bias finds a way.

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