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Xiaomi Camera censoring German postal voting documents

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Re: Xiaomi Camera censoring German postal voting documents

#41

Post by xoa »

Retric wrote: post #38
xoa wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All of which has been common for a long time No, this has never been done before. > You where already sending your unencrypted phots to Apple No, I wasn't. The whole point here is that Apple is not scanning server side, they've built the functionality to scan device side. You need never use iCloud in any way whatsoever in order for Apple's new scanning tech to be used against you. That is a major difference. > Appl…

> The whole point here is that Apple is not scanning server side False. Apple complies with the laws pertaining to customer data and provides data as legally required. III. Information Available from Apple J. iCloud https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/law-enforcement-guidelin... > You need never use iCloud in any way whatsoever in order for Apple's new scanning tech to be used against you. False. Phones don’t downloa…

>> The whole point here is that Apple is not scanning server side

>False.

No, TRUE. Apple announced TWO difference technologies. The first one is specifically for completely independent machine learning client-side scanning of all messages. From Apple's own announcement:

>First, new communication tools will enable parents to play a more informed role in helping their children navigate communication online. The Messages app will use on-device machine learning to warn about sensitive content

Which has been clarified to mean any and all sexually explicit material, and then notifies the parents. Apple is billing this as only for child accounts and only to parents, but that is merely a set of flags and directions in the programming not anything inherent to the system. It could be applied to any ML model at all and the notifications sent to anyone at all. The system is now built and ready for governments to compel Apple to use for other things in complete violation of device owner's rights, backed by Apple's total ownership of device root.

The second feature is the one for client-side scanning of all photos uploaded to iCloud for illicit content using "neuralhash" which is subject to collisions as have already been repeatedly generated and received lots of discussion here as well as elsewhere (ie., [0]). That is claimed to be initially aimed at uploads and CSAM only, not that there is any way to be sure, but again same thing: the system now exists to perform arbitrary fuzzy scans on-device whether someone is uploading elsewhere or not.

This is absolutely new and horrible capability. If you upload something unencrypted to somebody else's property, as well as the law there is a reasonable common sense understanding that you're depending upon their good will and that they may be compelled at that point without having to involve you. "Possession is 9/10 of ownership" and all that, regardless of details. Now one's own personal private property will have built-in locked down systems to scan all your data based on arbitrary third party choices.

----

0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28219068

Re: Xiaomi Camera censoring German postal voting documents

#42

Post by Retric »

xoa wrote: post #41
Retric wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The whole point here is that Apple is not scanning server side False. Apple complies with the laws pertaining to customer data and provides data as legally required. III. Information Available from Apple J. iCloud https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/law-enforcement-guidelin... > You need never use iCloud in any way whatsoever in order for Apple's new scanning tech to be used against you. False. Phones don’t downloa…

>> The whole point here is that Apple is not scanning server side >False. No, TRUE. Apple announced TWO difference technologies. The first one is specifically for completely independent machine learning client-side scanning of all messages. From Apple's own announcement: > First, new communication tools will enable parents to play a more informed role in helping their children navigate communication online. The Messa…

> that is merely a set of flags and directions in the programming not anything inherent to the system.

Parental controls can also be setup to track kids real time position, such tracking is invasive but that’s what the people buying the phones want. It’s a much larger stretch to say Apple is going to suddenly enable that and track every user in real time for example even though they 100% could.

Anyway, it’s all just code, every device with over the air updates has the exact capacity you fear. As it stands no it doesn’t do what you’re worried about. It could after someone builds as system to do more than just detect porn, but that was true of the original iPhone.

So, I get the concern but if that’s what you’re worried about you should be equally concerned for every other device that can be updated without your consent.

Re: Xiaomi Camera censoring German postal voting documents

#43

Post by mintplant »

The unofficial Google Camera port I've been using silently discards photos containing the sun's reflection in water. Rather than assuming Google is intentionally concealing the appearance of a celestial body, I've chalked this up to a bug in post-processing code that only kicks in when a specific image recognition pattern matches. Modern ML-driven camera systems make for some fun "500 mile email" [0] esque failure modes.

[0] https://www.ibiblio.org/harris/500milemail.html

Re: Xiaomi Camera censoring German postal voting documents

#44

Post by causi »

sneak wrote: post #24
randomhodler84 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now that Apple has changed the rules, everyone should be under their impression that their phone is a cop and will snitch them out to the re-education board for punishment. This is reality.

Color printers already do this, embedding the device serial into microdot patterns on print-outs. Scanner firmware won't scan currency, even if doing so is legal.

I've never had an issue scanning currency. Some machines won't photocopy it.

Re: Xiaomi Camera censoring German postal voting documents

#45

Post by monopoledance »

perihelions wrote: post #3

Is there perhaps an invisible anti-counterfeiting constellation [0] on the ballot? Have digital cameras started enforcing that type of optical DRM? It's true the envelope's closed, but part of the ballot paper is visible through the transparent window. Should the poster be worried about their smartphone reporting them to law enforcement? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation

There is something really scary about this being all secret functionality. How do I know my scanner/printer/camera/... isn't snitching on me when connected to the internet?

Also can I put those dots in any picture/document to mess with cameras/editing software? Or is there more than those few dots to it? Would be kinda useful for public images, to at least annoy some stalkers, impersonators and other creeps. Doing this all over the place could also really support open source projects like GIMP!

Re: Xiaomi Camera censoring German postal voting documents

#46

Post by bellyfullofbac »

zalequin wrote: post #40
bellyfullofbac wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You believe what you want man, I personally don't buy it yet, and I'm not going to waste my brain power trying to convince people who are already convinced "It's the man! It must be the evil man!" and see any thing as proof of their evilness. "Most likely".. we live in different realities.

You can’t handle the truth and so you repress any idea of it.

And people absolutely certain of knowing the truth despite the lack of evidence are... what are they?

Re: Xiaomi Camera censoring German postal voting documents

#47

Post by gpas »

Spare_account wrote: post #31
woliveirajr wrote: post #26

The user says that with ProShot it worked, it would be nice if those photos were provided so that we could look for differences.

The user supplied a link with a number of sample images, including the photo taken with ProShot at the bottom. https://imgur.com/a/SCHGo4N

Doesn't imgur compress/resize and convert the images after importing?

Re: Xiaomi Camera censoring German postal voting documents

#48

Post by gpas »

ipsum2 wrote: post #36
nix0n wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's right. Why would a codec problem, repeatably, affect images of a particular document, but not other images?

Note that in the OPs photo ( https://imgur.com/a/SCHGo4N ) it happens to every other image consistently. If you were shooting raw (with Pixel, not familiar with Xiaomi camera), it would save the raw and jpeg together. The gallery not being able to display the raw image results in the green image would be consistent with whats being shown.

FWIW the redmi note 8 pro main 64mp camera (it's a Samsung sensor shared by many phones) can shoot in raw but only with a gcam port, not with the default Xiaomi camera app.

Re: Xiaomi Camera censoring German postal voting documents

#49

Post by hkt »

randomhodler84 wrote: post #5
perihelions wrote: post #3

Is there perhaps an invisible anti-counterfeiting constellation [0] on the ballot? Have digital cameras started enforcing that type of optical DRM? It's true the envelope's closed, but part of the ballot paper is visible through the transparent window. Should the poster be worried about their smartphone reporting them to law enforcement? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation

Now that Apple has changed the rules, everyone should be under their impression that their phone is a cop and will snitch them out to the re-education board for punishment. This is reality.

It isn't reality.

But if it was, I would suggest using a different phone. Maybe a fairphone running /e/ - that's my setup, with almost exclusively open source software. I can recommend it.

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