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Amazon App Store: Rotten To The Core

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Re: Amazon App Store: Rotten To The Core

#41

Post by podperson »

robtoo wrote: post #7

thanks to Amazon’s secret back-door deals, we made $0 on that day. These secret back-door deals that were so secret that they were written in bold in the email, so secret that they noticed this and wrote back to amazon, and so secret that amazon then confirmed them. They were offered a crappy deal, realized this and double-checked it, but decided to go for it anyway. When it turned out that the deal really was pretty…

"Secret" in that Amazon tells one story in public, then cuts a different deal in private and tells developers not to discuss it. (Presumably this blog post is some kind of breach, but since they've pulled out of the market it may not matter.)

The fact that the email from Amazon had bold text is irrelevant. If Apple advertised 70% going to developers but then sent you an email saying "hey, we'll put you on our featured app page if you agree to (a) accept 35% and (b) don't tell anyone about it" would that be secret? What if they bolded it?

Re: Amazon App Store: Rotten To The Core

#43

Post by masterzora »

robtoo wrote: post #18
yusefnapora wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they're valid in calling the deal "secret," as the app-buying public at large has no idea these deals are taking place. The developer knows they're getting nothing, but everyone downloading the free app is harboring illusions that they're supporting the developer.

Okay, fair enough. But I do think it is exaggerating to say that "everyone downloading the free app is harboring illusions that they're supporting the developer." I strongly suspect that the overwhelming majority of downloaders get no further than "ooh! free stuff!" click

Maybe not everyone, but certainly a non-zero number of people. As I read this I started feeling bad for the daily free apps I've picked up from Amazon thinking the developers were getting paid. At least now that I know I can go actually put money in their pockets. Hopefully others feel the same way.

Re: Amazon App Store: Rotten To The Core

#44

Post by mbateman »

rkalla wrote: post #37
rkalla wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

shifty, Admittedly, my response was focused more on the other beef than that single point. Given how much other information was in the post, I didn't think the 20% == 0% was the central argument; my apologies for missing that. My core belief that in the long(er) term that the give away likely would have helped the movement and sales of your app still stands though. I think you leaving it in the store for an extra mon…

Would appreciate clarification on the downvotes guys. If I'm missing something let me know.

Generally it seems like you're expecting the OP to take on your perspective without really taking his perspective seriously. Just saying you have a "core belief" that waiting longer would help doesn't really seem like a fair point.

Why don't server/support costs matter? Why does it have to be that it's more beneficial for these guys to have their software on 100k more devices than not? Why should all business models have to work that way? And why should someone who has a business model expecting to profit from Amazon's advertised 20% be willing to accept waiving that?

OP seems to have a valid complaint against Amazon and a worthwhile warning to others in similar situations, and you're just telling him to suck it up figure out some way around it. Okay, I get what you're saying, but withdrawing from what is by all evidence an unprofitable app market driven partially by a bait-and-switch still seems perfectly reasonable.

Re: Amazon App Store: Rotten To The Core

#45

Post by natrius »

dlikhten wrote: post #31
rkalla wrote: post #4

What I got from this blog post is that they made an uninformed decision, and ended up with an unexpected result that pissed them off from the perspective of "lost sales". The email from Amazon clarified there were no money to made and sure enough, no money was made. The added costs of the server is unfortunate and justifiably something to be upset about (especially if you weren't accounting for it), but I have to poi…

Lets say you are right, the dev is saying "omg look at teh numberz i lost 100 thousandz salez" Note: Sales did not pick up after the free app sale. Therefore that free app sale was actually a waste of time. Furthermore their app requires a server to run, since its not a subscription-based app the server is 100% on their backs. They now support 100,000 unpaid customers with a server, and ALL those customers are going…

> Amazon further moved by reducing the price of the app for 3 days without consent and modified description of the app.

Both of those actions were consented to in the agreement the company entered into with Amazon.

Re: Amazon App Store: Rotten To The Core

#46

Post by cyberguppy »

rkalla wrote: post #4

What I got from this blog post is that they made an uninformed decision, and ended up with an unexpected result that pissed them off from the perspective of "lost sales". The email from Amazon clarified there were no money to made and sure enough, no money was made. The added costs of the server is unfortunate and justifiably something to be upset about (especially if you weren't accounting for it), but I have to poi…

I do not understand the point of this long rant when you have zero understanding of the mobile marketplace. I'm going to go ahead and take your advice and "say everything [you've] typed up until now is garbage" and "[wave] it all away" and respond to the reviews point.

When users grab an App for free, they leave worse reviews in aggregate, nearly every time. In the mobile marketplace, people who have to spend money to buy Apps normally have money, and often have jobs, which sometimes means they're adults, which occasionally means they act like adults when they decide to review an app they decide to spend money on. People who download apps for free often decide to act like privileged little brats and berate an app for any feature they perceive that it should have but which they fail to find (regardless of whether said feature exists in the app). They leave poor reviews and don't factor "value" into the equation because all they ever download are free Apps and they expect nothing less than Angry Birds every single time.

Re: Amazon App Store: Rotten To The Core

#47

Post by barredo »

ghempton wrote: post #42

Lots of larger studios actually pay to acquire installs of their app to get an initial placement on the charts and to drive organic growth from there. In that context, 101k new users for free is very valuable.

But it didn't get any growth (at least the 5 next days) and it is costing them server money to provide service to these new users

Re: Amazon App Store: Rotten To The Core

#48

Post by dibarnu »

rkalla wrote: post #38
colbygk wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally disagree with the point about the nature of a free app getting a lift in reviews. "How many reviews may be a half to a full star higher because the app was free and there isn't that feeling of being owed value by the reviewer because they got your app for free." Breaking a rule, I cannot currently post direct references, I hope someone either corrects or bolsters this: I have read at least one peer-reviewed…

That is a good point to bring up. I don't think that study and those results apply here verbatim because this is more the Groupon model than the "cheap service" model. I am, for a VERY limited time, getting a product for free. The perception of value is much higher (because of the time limit) than if I were downloading an always-free product or a really cheap product. I think the success of Groupon, effectively using…

Except that reality doesn't bear out your position. So far, I haven't seen you give any evidence, other than your feelings or what you think, that things are the way you say they are.

I have visited the FAD page right around midnight pacific (when the free app is revealed) every day since it was first introduced in March. A few apps start with no rating, but most have 4- to 5-stars. By the end of the FAD promotion (the free-day,) I've observed at least half of them go below 3-stars. The only ones that have gone up are the ones that had no rating to begin with. Many, but not most, do recover some of their rating. I've yet to see an app (that I recall) which regained its previous high.

My understanding, and I don't have any link to really support this, is that Groupon customers are some of the most demanding, selfish and entitled gits out there. If Groupon is so great and customers are so thrilled at getting a premium thing cheap, why do more than half of merchants say they wouldn't do the promotion again?

http://www.businessinsider.com/groupon-survey-results-2011-7

You say Groupon is successful? You're right, but pretty much only for the customers [ab]using it. Groupon loses money at an alarming rate...

http://www.minyanville.com/businessmarkets/articles/groupon-...

Your logic is really flawed when you say "I'd also argue that the sheer volume of downloads (100k vs 20 the day before) would also support that claim."

It supports the claim that people like free stuff. Once a year IHOP does a free pancake deal for charity. On those days they see roughly 50 times more customers than on a typical day. By your logic, people perceive pancakes as a huge value.

Re: Amazon App Store: Rotten To The Core

#49

Post by Pieces »

cyberguppy wrote: post #46
rkalla wrote: post #4

What I got from this blog post is that they made an uninformed decision, and ended up with an unexpected result that pissed them off from the perspective of "lost sales". The email from Amazon clarified there were no money to made and sure enough, no money was made. The added costs of the server is unfortunate and justifiably something to be upset about (especially if you weren't accounting for it), but I have to poi…

I do not understand the point of this long rant when you have zero understanding of the mobile marketplace. I'm going to go ahead and take your advice and "say everything [you've] typed up until now is garbage" and "[wave] it all away" and respond to the reviews point. When users grab an App for free, they leave worse reviews in aggregate, nearly every time. In the mobile marketplace, people who have to spend money t…

The other problem I've read (from another article about Amazon's Appstore, which I haven't been able to find) is that it does not support the compatibility portion of the manifest (i.e. incompatible devices are allowed to download apps). There is also no way to respond to negative reviews. The result is a lot of negative reviews by people who cannot run the app, and cannot be responded to.

Re: Amazon App Store: Rotten To The Core

#50

Post by rkalla »

mbateman wrote: post #44
rkalla wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would appreciate clarification on the downvotes guys. If I'm missing something let me know.

Generally it seems like you're expecting the OP to take on your perspective without really taking his perspective seriously. Just saying you have a "core belief" that waiting longer would help doesn't really seem like a fair point. Why don't server/support costs matter? Why does it have to be that it's more beneficial for these guys to have their software on 100k more devices than not? Why should all business models…

That is a fair point, I don't think the OP's complaint about the 20-to-0 switch was invalid, but I do skip past it to try and look at what kind of benefit can be squeezed from their current predicament instead of scorching the earth and walking away.

Thank you for the feedback.

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