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How Apple conquered China and learned to think like the Communist Party.

foreignpolicy.com

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Re: How Apple conquered China and learned to think like the Communist Party.

#41

Post by guard-of-terra »

I don't understand why your beloved apple won't throw in a $1000 monthly stipend for neurodamaged workers and close this horrible issue forever. Financially, it means considerably smaller than for me tossing a poor beggar a buck, and I do that when I can, even if I'm not a cause of their poorness, I ain't blamed for their misfortune and I won't be praised if I do.

Also, why won't you Apple users boycott buying Apple until they take care of the issue in question? Other than being unable to function without the drug you're addicted to?

Re: How Apple conquered China and learned to think like the Communist Party.

#42

Post by guard-of-terra »

jackfoxy wrote: post #11
wallflower wrote: post #4

If you have not read "What is China", read it after: http://www.tapsns.com/blog/index.php/2010/01/what-is-china/

Would really like folks who down-voted you to explain themselves. The fact China (and Russia) are the only supports of North Korea says everything you need to know about the essence of the rulers of both countries.

As far as I heard, some european studios have their cartoons drawn in North Korea (you can buy a lot of quality and really really cheap work there). Does that count as support? If it doesn't, what does?

Re: How Apple conquered China and learned to think like the Communist Party.

#43

Post by guard-of-terra »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #41

I don't understand why your beloved apple won't throw in a $1000 monthly stipend for neurodamaged workers and close this horrible issue forever. Financially, it means considerably smaller than for me tossing a poor beggar a buck, and I do that when I can, even if I'm not a cause of their poorness, I ain't blamed for their misfortune and I won't be praised if I do. Also, why won't you Apple users boycott buying Apple…

It seems that the only reason why capitalistic company would give out money is fear.

AirBNB is going to fix a problem which is obviously not caused by them because they are afraid of repercussions. Apple is not afraid of anything, therefore they're going to sit on a pile of gold like a dragon and that's it.

Re: How Apple conquered China and learned to think like the Communist Party.

#44

Post by rimantas »

m_eiman wrote: post #37
forensic wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can't save the world. Even if our entire country voted for it, we could not save the Chinese from their own policies. They are adults living in a sovereign nation; they are responsible for their own working conditions. I'm not going to feel white-guilt for stuff that happens in a foreign country over which I have zero control.

Even if our entire country voted for it, we could not save the Chinese from their own policies. Vote with your wallet. If nobody will buy products produced using awful methods, they will no longer be produced that way. It's quite simple. Then you'll say "But everyone else is buying them, so it doesn't matter if I do it too". To which I say "Don't care about what others are doing, just do the right thing yourself".

Ok, don't buy the products. Then they are without the jobs. How does it help exactly?

Re: How Apple conquered China and learned to think like the Communist Party.

#45

Post by erikpukinskis »

buddylw wrote: post #13

I am no fan of Apple - mainly for their closed architecture, but I am also a cold-hearted economist when it comes to these types issues and this article is a bit of a one sided hit piece. I would like to throw in a few counterpoints so we can all maintain a proper context. 1.) When companies become as large as Apple and begin purchasing products from vendors. It is not possible for them to guarantee the safety and op…

When companies become as large as Apple and begin purchasing products from vendors. It is not possible for them to guarantee the safety and operation of every vendor.

Yea, but here's what's scummy: they refuse to even disclose who their suppliers are. Which means that neither journalists nor customers can go out and find out what's going on.

I don't need Apple to spend billions verifying that the children of every last worker are getting their shoes tied in the morning. But I think they should at least give us the chance to look it up ourselves.

Maybe it should be federal law that you should have to report all of your suppliers if you want to sell goods in the US. Maybe report (anonymized) salaries of everyone too, benefits, etc.

Re: How Apple conquered China and learned to think like the Communist Party.

#46

Post by Volpe »

rimantas wrote: post #44
m_eiman wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if our entire country voted for it, we could not save the Chinese from their own policies. Vote with your wallet. If nobody will buy products produced using awful methods, they will no longer be produced that way. It's quite simple. Then you'll say "But everyone else is buying them, so it doesn't matter if I do it too". To which I say "Don't care about what others are doing, just do the right thing yourself".

Ok, don't buy the products. Then they are without the jobs. How does it help exactly?

Yes, because that's how capitalism works! If you don't buy a specific product, the whole market fails and everyone dies of hunger.

Re: How Apple conquered China and learned to think like the Communist Party.

#47

Post by Volpe »

jackfoxy wrote: post #11
wallflower wrote: post #4

If you have not read "What is China", read it after: http://www.tapsns.com/blog/index.php/2010/01/what-is-china/

Would really like folks who down-voted you to explain themselves. The fact China (and Russia) are the only supports of North Korea says everything you need to know about the essence of the rulers of both countries.

For those that don't quite understand what "everything you need to know" means, could you spell it out?

Re: How Apple conquered China and learned to think like the Communist Party.

#48

Post by forensic »

m_eiman wrote: post #37
forensic wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can't save the world. Even if our entire country voted for it, we could not save the Chinese from their own policies. They are adults living in a sovereign nation; they are responsible for their own working conditions. I'm not going to feel white-guilt for stuff that happens in a foreign country over which I have zero control.

Even if our entire country voted for it, we could not save the Chinese from their own policies. Vote with your wallet. If nobody will buy products produced using awful methods, they will no longer be produced that way. It's quite simple. Then you'll say "But everyone else is buying them, so it doesn't matter if I do it too". To which I say "Don't care about what others are doing, just do the right thing yourself".

It's impossible for me to have perfect information, or even relatively accurate information about the working conditions of the people who made my stuff.

Also since working conditions are subjective value judgements, I can't even objectively say that someone is working under bad working conditions.

In the first world there are high-rise window cleaners. Some people would consider washing windows a mile in the sky to be cruel and unusual punishment. Others consider it a thrill and would pay to do it.

I am not qualified to determine the difference between a sweatshop and just a highly efficient assembly line. Even if I was qualified, I would not have the necessary information. Even if I had the necessary information, I use too many products for me to examine the supply lines of each one. Even if someone did this for me, they would not be able to probe into the dark depths of communist China.

No, this doesn't fall to me. The working conditions of Chinese people are the responsibility of Chinese people. I will engage in trade with Chinese people and let them decide how they wish to work and how they wish to organize their society.

Ethnic paternalism is so 19th century.

Re: How Apple conquered China and learned to think like the Communist Party.

#49

Post by sneak »

diogenescynic wrote: post #10
curt wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if Apple wanted to the regulations surrounding manufacturing, especially on a large scale are crazy. Can't tell you how many operations are moving overseas not because of the labor costs but because of the bureaucracy, paperwork, EPA, and regulations in the US.

An interesting hypothetical scenario is one where Apple had all iPhones assembled in the US. Assuming that the wage of American workers is ten times as high as those of their Chinese counterparts, the total assembly cost would rise to $68 and total manufacturing cost would be pushed to approximately $240. Selling iPhones assembled by American workers at $500 per unit would still leave a 50% profit margin for Apple. I…

Except that in the USA it's probably illegal to fire workers who won't work 16 hour days and it's also illegal to expose workers to toxic solvents.

OSHA and the associated regulations legislated us right out of the market.

Re: How Apple conquered China and learned to think like the Communist Party.

#50

Post by Volpe »

wallflower wrote: post #4

If you have not read "What is China", read it after: http://www.tapsns.com/blog/index.php/2010/01/what-is-china/

BS Anti-China Agg-prop.

If you read this, and agree with it whole heartedly. Please stop, get an education, and learn about how economies grow.

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