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Why the Covid Vaccines Aren’t Dangerous

newyorker.com

41–50 of 119 posts

Re: Why the Covid Vaccines Aren’t Dangerous

#41
post #11

Those that believe the vaccines are dangerous aren't swayed by rational thinking.

- Citation needed, I'm not so sure you can make this off-hand remark and we should all accept it as an axiom and continue from here. Many people will be reasonable given reasonable arguments, especially if you make the time to answer questions and concerns they have. I've noticed people don't do research on their own, almost never aside from a very small share of my friends and family, so individual conversations see…

The anti-vax crowd is currently taking horse deworming paste rather than get vaccinated. Saying that they won’t listen rational arguments about vaccine safety isn’t a huge leap. At this point it’s basically self evident.

Re: Why the Covid Vaccines Aren’t Dangerous

#42
> For some people, it’s not so much the known risks that have them worried as the unknown. They ask, What if the mRNA vaccines alter our DNA, threatening our health far in the future? Will they affect our bodies in other, as yet undiscovered, ways? After all, some say, this is brand-new technology, and the F.D.A. has only fully approved the Pfizer vaccine.

> As it turns out, though, mRNA technology isn’t especially new. Scientists have been developing it since the nineteen-nineties.

A lot of the anti-vaxxer claims about mRNA vaccines are incredulous, but this common approach to dismissing concerns about them is a bit disingenuous and not very convincing.

Yes, mRNA technology has been in development for decades. So what? We went from having 0 mRNA vaccines in use to injecting hundreds of millions of people around the world with them all at once.

The sales pitch: if enough people get vaccinated, we'll stop the spread of the virus and life can return to normal.

The reality: people fully vaccinated less than a year ago are becoming infected, with the data showing clearly in the case of Delta that vaccinated people have similar viral loads to unvaccinated people and can spread the virus to others too. Now we're being told that we'll have to have booster shots, perhaps as soon as every 5-6 months, something that we don't do for any other disease.

I'm fully vaccinated with Pfizer and not particularly concerned about the risk of undiscovered long-term side effects, but to pretend that what we're doing really isn't novel is far from convincing and I think arguments along these lines are having the opposite of the intended effect.

Re: Why the Covid Vaccines Aren’t Dangerous

#43
post #16

>It is this weighing of risks and benefits, in all their many facets, that informs the chorus of health-care professionals imploring their families, neighbors, co-workers, and friends, along with everyone else, to please get vaccinated against covid-19. They urge vaccination because they see its ratio of risks to benefits as incredibly, unbelievably good. For someone who has already had Covid and recovered, there is…

How good and available is the testing to prove you have natural immunity?

Re: Why the Covid Vaccines Aren’t Dangerous

#44
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being dishonest isn't a hallmark of rational thinking either. The Covid-19 vaccines are observably dangerous to some persons[1], however rare that danger may be. The rational thing to do is to weigh the risk versus the benefit. If you really want hesitant persons to get vaccinated, you're going to get a lot farther by being honest about the risks of the vaccines, the risks of Covid-19, and showing why, for their circ…

> The Covid-19 vaccines are observably dangerous Generally when people refer to something as "dangerous", they don't mean "To a very very small subset of people, and in very very specific and rare circumstances".

They probably have reasons to believe that the subset is not so small, and would like to obtain credible studies determining the specificity of those circumstances ( = under which conditions adverse events are more likely to appear. Similarly to the circulating "Females under 60 / Males under 30", but with more detail).

Re: Why the Covid Vaccines Aren’t Dangerous

#45
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is the latest data. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/08/having-sars-cov-2-on... Vaccinated person 13x more likely than the naturally immune to catch delta 7x more likely to be symptomatic More likely to be hospitalized Take back you downvote and educate yourself.

The commenter stated that the vaccine had no benefit to previously infected. That is not true. From the article you reference: "The researchers also found that people who had SARS-CoV-2 previously and received one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccine were more highly protected against reinfection than those who once had the virus and were still unvaccinated."

Yes agreed, but the benefits appear to be insignificant relative to the benefits of giving that vaccine dose to an immunologically naive or otherwise vulnerable individual.

Re: Why the Covid Vaccines Aren’t Dangerous

#46
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Citation needed, I'm not so sure you can make this off-hand remark and we should all accept it as an axiom and continue from here. Many people will be reasonable given reasonable arguments, especially if you make the time to answer questions and concerns they have. I've noticed people don't do research on their own, almost never aside from a very small share of my friends and family, so individual conversations see…

The anti-vax crowd is currently taking horse deworming paste rather than get vaccinated. Saying that they won’t listen rational arguments about vaccine safety isn’t a huge leap. At this point it’s basically self evident.

One can always find extreme examples in the media (or online, if only enough people read this one of them will know someone). What percentage of the people not yet vaccinated is actually that kind of crazy?

Re: Why the Covid Vaccines Aren’t Dangerous

#47
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the very first paragraph, the doctor gives a reason why people aren't getting vaccinated, and it's because they've heard of bad outcomes and are simply avoiding something they know to be a potential immediate risk. That is not irrational thinking. "I often ask them why, after the devastation we’ve seen this year, they’ve chosen not to get vaccinated. Sometimes their answers are weird or conspiratorial. But most pe…

It can be considered irrational thinking given the scientifically documented rarity of adverse reactions to the vaccines thus far. It is lottery-ticket thinking but with a negative outcome imagined in place of a positive one. Just like with lottery tickets, you have to be in to win. But it is overwhelmingly unlikely that you will win, and it is overwhelmingly unlikely you will have an adverse reaction to the vaccine.…

Perhaps a better label would be innumerate thinking rather than irrational thinking? Our public educational system generally does a terrible job of teaching students statistics.

Re: Why the Covid Vaccines Aren’t Dangerous

#48
post #17

Those that believe the vaccines are dangerous aren't swayed by rational thinking.

Being dishonest isn't a hallmark of rational thinking either. The Covid-19 vaccines are observably dangerous to some persons[1], however rare that danger may be. The rational thing to do is to weigh the risk versus the benefit. If you really want hesitant persons to get vaccinated, you're going to get a lot farther by being honest about the risks of the vaccines, the risks of Covid-19, and showing why, for their circ…

The risk of myocarditis and other adverse effects from getting COVID itself is multiple orders of magnitude higher than anything related to the vaccine. This should be a no-brainer if there ever was one. You do not want to be wihout vaccine immunity, even if you have been infected in the past.

Re: Why the Covid Vaccines Aren’t Dangerous

#49
post #16

>It is this weighing of risks and benefits, in all their many facets, that informs the chorus of health-care professionals imploring their families, neighbors, co-workers, and friends, along with everyone else, to please get vaccinated against covid-19. They urge vaccination because they see its ratio of risks to benefits as incredibly, unbelievably good. For someone who has already had Covid and recovered, there is…

Far from that clear cut, other results show booster shots on top of previous infection perform better than just natural immunity - and we will see how the longevity of both works out with future data, and can adjust accordingly. (and e.g. the current policy here in Germany: immunity counts for X (I think 6) months, afterwards a single booster shot counts as fully vaccinated.)

Re: Why the Covid Vaccines Aren’t Dangerous

#50
post #43
post #16

>It is this weighing of risks and benefits, in all their many facets, that informs the chorus of health-care professionals imploring their families, neighbors, co-workers, and friends, along with everyone else, to please get vaccinated against covid-19. They urge vaccination because they see its ratio of risks to benefits as incredibly, unbelievably good. For someone who has already had Covid and recovered, there is…

How good and available is the testing to prove you have natural immunity?

Antibody tests are instant and widely available. These tests are (I believe) what the natural immunity studies use to establish history of prior infection.

Detractors will say that there is no established level of antibodies that means "immunity."

Ironically, it is declining antibodies though (and no set threshold) that is being used to justify "booster" jabs around the world!

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