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Lebanon’s underground cryptocurrency market

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Re: Lebanon’s underground cryptocurrency market

#41

Post by anonleb4 »

tromp wrote: post #38
anonleb4 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is though. I think you missed the part where it says you can't buy cryptocurrency from within Lebanon except with hard cash and from one of the exchangers. These exchangers have to get the cryptocurrency from somewhere to begin with. They mention that they wire the money to Nigeria and let someone there buy it for them.

Yes, money is geographically bound, which is why they need to wire it to Nigeria. But once cryptocurrency is bought with Nigerian funds, there is no "sending" it to Lebanon. That part is misleading. Sending is done not from one geographic location to another but from one owner to another.

Today's currency is all digital and is just a number, yet we say "we're sending it". You're taking the metaphor too literally.

Re: Lebanon’s underground cryptocurrency market

#42

Post by csomar »

908B64B197 wrote: post #15

Lebanon has a pretty large diaspora outside of the country (and with income in real currencies). And the current government is pretty corrupt. I wonder if the best strategy here isn't for the diaspora to just buy back the country for pennies on the dollar during the current collapse.

Lebanese issue is that it is being held hostage by a militia (Huzb Allah). No amount of money is going to help until these militias are disbanded and a national independent military is put into place.

Besides having a giant diaspora, this diaspora still has strong ties to the motherland and many of them are also very rich. Lebanon could then come back quickly and reach western levels of development and wealth.

Re: Lebanon’s underground cryptocurrency market

#43

Post by csomar »

counternotions wrote: post #12

There’s always that one guy: > “That’s my reputation,” Baasiri said. “Gravity fucks the market.” 5% commissions on transactions though, that’s really steep!

Nope, 5% means the black market is quite efficient. Black market operates on high-yield since they are illegal, hard to circumvent and usually monopolized by a few.

Re: Lebanon’s underground cryptocurrency market

#44

Post by yosito »

anonleb4 wrote: post #41
tromp wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, money is geographically bound, which is why they need to wire it to Nigeria. But once cryptocurrency is bought with Nigerian funds, there is no "sending" it to Lebanon. That part is misleading. Sending is done not from one geographic location to another but from one owner to another.

Today's currency is all digital and is just a number, yet we say "we're sending it". You're taking the metaphor too literally.

Digital doesn't automatically mean that it's not geographically bound. If the servers that store it, banks that manage the accounts, state that issues the currency, and businesses that accept the currency are all geographically bound, digital currency is geographically bound. Crypto is less geographically bound by nature, because it's a distributed ledger. And the more successful crypto ledgers are globally distributed and this not really geographically bound.

Re: Lebanon’s underground cryptocurrency market

#45

Post by nroets »

disruptalot wrote: post #24
aorth wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it different? How many goods and services can you pay for with cryptocurrency where you live? What if your government's goons (or private goons for that matter) hit you with a rubber hose and steal your coins? Who will help you?

You don't need to buy goods and services directly but it is a good way to store and invest your wealth. Most capital controls are mute once you've exited into crypto. On what basis do they hit you? Anyone that ever has any link to crypto? That's everyone. Crypto has a level of security and plausible deniability, that makes such things unrealistic. That's why you don't hear about it happening often. To many people und…

Just to add that many South Africans are importing and reselling crypto through a legal loophole. [1] Only "exporting" crypto is illegal.

There are highly liquid international markets for our currency vs other fiats. The government has relaxed capital controls substantially over the last 20 years.

Right now the focus of government is taxing crypto. Capital controls are taking a back seat, because enough Dollars are coming into the country to pay for imports. External debt is minimal.

[1]: https://www.ovex.io/blog/crypto-arbitrage-101/

Re: Lebanon’s underground cryptocurrency market

#46

Post by thedmstdmstdmst »

PoignardAzur wrote: post #26
imtringued wrote: post #13

Let's say you build the perfect monetary policy into a cryptocurrency. Okay, now the basic institution of money is working again but what about everything else? >Over the last two years, Lebanon has been gripped by an economic death spiral, the culmination of years of government corruption and mismanagement. The electricity supply has collapsed, pharmacies and gas stations are empty, The article mentions infrastructu…

> Have there been successful cases of countries with private infrastructure? Infrastructure generally starts out private and gets nationalized over time.

Are you sure it doesn't go the other way?

Re: Lebanon’s underground cryptocurrency market

#47

Post by notahacker »

Geee wrote: post #35
imtringued wrote: post #13

Let's say you build the perfect monetary policy into a cryptocurrency. Okay, now the basic institution of money is working again but what about everything else? >Over the last two years, Lebanon has been gripped by an economic death spiral, the culmination of years of government corruption and mismanagement. The electricity supply has collapsed, pharmacies and gas stations are empty, The article mentions infrastructu…

The idea, in Bitcoin standard, is that government projects should be financed with taxes; not by printing money. When money has no cost, it inevitably results in loss of responsibility and capital mismanagement. The usual story is that government uses the money printer to enrich themselves, and also funds an army to keep people from overthrowing them. When government is funded with taxes, there are limits on how much…

Except of course that when incompetent or authoritarian governments have to borrow or seize money they need to cover up shortfalls, the consequences aren't exactly better...

And it's not like crypto removes the notion of wealthy elites capturing the revenue of money printing, it just moves them and their money a long way from the local economy, requires them to spend a lot of money on burning power and removes any incentive for them to spend it on local roads or schools.

Re: Lebanon’s underground cryptocurrency market

#48

Post by jon-wood »

nkuttler wrote: post #31
imtringued wrote: post #13

Let's say you build the perfect monetary policy into a cryptocurrency. Okay, now the basic institution of money is working again but what about everything else? >Over the last two years, Lebanon has been gripped by an economic death spiral, the culmination of years of government corruption and mismanagement. The electricity supply has collapsed, pharmacies and gas stations are empty, The article mentions infrastructu…

> First, how do you use cryptocurrencies with limited access to electricity? You only need to charge your phone once per day. If power goes out, no problem. If you have no electricity at home somebody close by probably has a phone charging business.

What's powering the cell towers?

Re: Lebanon’s underground cryptocurrency market

#49

Post by phreeza »

tromp wrote: post #38
anonleb4 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is though. I think you missed the part where it says you can't buy cryptocurrency from within Lebanon except with hard cash and from one of the exchangers. These exchangers have to get the cryptocurrency from somewhere to begin with. They mention that they wire the money to Nigeria and let someone there buy it for them.

Yes, money is geographically bound, which is why they need to wire it to Nigeria. But once cryptocurrency is bought with Nigerian funds, there is no "sending" it to Lebanon. That part is misleading. Sending is done not from one geographic location to another but from one owner to another.

That's like saying there is no "sending" an email to Lebanon. Sure you may be technically right but everyone understands what is meant, and in consequence it is equivalent to physically sending.

Re: Lebanon’s underground cryptocurrency market

#50

Post by EliRivers »

csomar wrote: post #37
aorth wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it different? How many goods and services can you pay for with cryptocurrency where you live? What if your government's goons (or private goons for that matter) hit you with a rubber hose and steal your coins? Who will help you?

> How is it different? You don't get 50% dilution of your savings within a year. > How many goods and services can you pay for with cryptocurrency where you live? In a liquid market, you can convert your weekly needs and pay using cash. > What if your government's goons (or private goons for that matter) hit you with a rubber hose and steal your coins? If they are going to do that (and some countries do that), they'l…

You don't get 50% dilution of your savings within a year.

Although if you're measuring bitcoin against the USD, you could have done that in May :)

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