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Pfizer Shot Just 39% Effective Against Delta Infection, Israel Study Suggests

forbes.com

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Re: Pfizer Shot Just 39% Effective Against Delta Infection, Israel Study Suggests

#41

Post by j_walter »

HWR_14 wrote: post #36
j_walter wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't seen any good information on transmission. My gut feeling is that less symptoms == less transmissibility, but I have no data to back that up. One study has put the delta R0 around the same as Measles...which is 3x original COVID, but still less than Chicken Pox.

> One study has put the delta R0 around the same as Measles...which is 3x original COVID, but still less than Chicken Pox. I think you swapped Chicken Pox and Measles in your example, as the delta R0 seems similar to Chicken Pox and Chicken Pox has a lower R0 than Measles. Chicken Pox, which, pre-vaccine, was considered an infection everyone would get.

Thats very possible...I was going off information my significant other mentioned to me yesterday that she heard on the news. Hearsay of hearsay...so my bad...

Re: Pfizer Shot Just 39% Effective Against Delta Infection, Israel Study Suggests

#42

Post by wbsss4412 »

breadzeppelin__ wrote: post #22
j_walter wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't seen any good information on transmission. My gut feeling is that less symptoms == less transmissibility, but I have no data to back that up. One study has put the delta R0 around the same as Measles...which is 3x original COVID, but still less than Chicken Pox.

> less symptoms == less transmissibility doesn't really hold up when asymptomatic spread (no symptoms at all) has been one of the main concerns for the entire pandemic

It’s important to distinguish between asymptomatic infection and presymptomatic infection. The biggest problem with COVID-19 compared to previous forms of SARS viruses is its ability to spread before the onset of symptoms, which is different from someone displaying no symptoms at all from infection.

I’m not completely sure how infectious an asymptomatic infection is, but i just wanted to note a lot of the concern has actually been about presymptomatic infection.

Re: Pfizer Shot Just 39% Effective Against Delta Infection, Israel Study Suggests

#43

Post by wbsss4412 »

dolni wrote: post #15

Studies continue to show vaccines are less effective than we were all lead to believe. It seems like every new study that comes out lowers the bar even further. Pretty soon we'll be hearing "the vaccine doesn't help at all, but at least it didn't give you cancer" (mild sarcasm there, but you get the point). Each of the big pharma companies were poised to make a boatload of money by being first to produce a vaccine. I…

Reduced efficacy against asymptomatic and mild illness but still over 90% efficacy against severe illness and hospitalization hardly seems to warrant your level of ire.

Re: Pfizer Shot Just 39% Effective Against Delta Infection, Israel Study Suggests

#44

Post by yodon »

dolni wrote: post #33
yodon wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were lifted because voters were angry and made that anger known to politicians, who responded in a political manner rather than a medical manner.

Exactly what I expected to hear. Let's acknowledge that at least some of the stuff we're seeing is being driven by politics to the detriment of actual science. Some of that might even include (gasp) information about vaccines.

The fact that politicians act primarily based on political input is hardly a novel idea, and is not in itself evidence that scientists act in that manner when publishing scientific results. You're going to need actual data to back that later bit up, because at present you are just casting aspersions based on conjecture.

Re: Pfizer Shot Just 39% Effective Against Delta Infection, Israel Study Suggests

#45

Post by tmaly »

jefft255 wrote: post #6
j_walter wrote: post #4

39% effective against infection, but the big sticking point is that it "Largely prevents severe illness"...ie keeping people out of the hospital. That is the crucial need right now with the delta spread.

My understanding is that it's pretty clear that vaccine do not do a good job at preventing infection (i.e. testing positive and/or having cold-like symptoms), Delta or not. I don't think they were ever advertised as such.

it is my understanding that mRNA technology makes it easier to create vaccines. Why can we just do a version 2 that does work better against delta?

Re: Pfizer Shot Just 39% Effective Against Delta Infection, Israel Study Suggests

#46

Post by HWR_14 »

wbsss4412 wrote: post #42
breadzeppelin__ wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> less symptoms == less transmissibility doesn't really hold up when asymptomatic spread (no symptoms at all) has been one of the main concerns for the entire pandemic

It’s important to distinguish between asymptomatic infection and presymptomatic infection. The biggest problem with COVID-19 compared to previous forms of SARS viruses is its ability to spread before the onset of symptoms, which is different from someone displaying no symptoms at all from infection. I’m not completely sure how infectious an asymptomatic infection is, but i just wanted to note a lot of the concern has…

Both asymptomatic and presymptomatic transmission are possible. [1] And there has been a lot of published concern about both.

[1] https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/4/20-4576_article

Re: Pfizer Shot Just 39% Effective Against Delta Infection, Israel Study Suggests

#47

Post by bamboozled »

tmaly wrote: post #45
jefft255 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that it's pretty clear that vaccine do not do a good job at preventing infection (i.e. testing positive and/or having cold-like symptoms), Delta or not. I don't think they were ever advertised as such.

it is my understanding that mRNA technology makes it easier to create vaccines. Why can we just do a version 2 that does work better against delta?

Probably because this version is doing well enough?

Re: Pfizer Shot Just 39% Effective Against Delta Infection, Israel Study Suggests

#48

Post by lamontcg »

throwaway19232 wrote: post #37

thread from someone working on the study: https://mobile.twitter.com/dvir_a/status/1420059124700700677

Yeah this study is from the leading edge of delta, it needs to get redone, and confounding factors need to get removed.

Re: Pfizer Shot Just 39% Effective Against Delta Infection, Israel Study Suggests

#49

Post by senectus1 »

j_walter wrote: post #4

39% effective against infection, but the big sticking point is that it "Largely prevents severe illness"...ie keeping people out of the hospital. That is the crucial need right now with the delta spread.

39% against infection is bloody good.

I'll take that (actually i already have)

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