Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#41

Post by s5300 » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 1:20 AM UTC

bllguo wrote: post #17

kradeelav wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not requiring a doctor's note for going to the restroom infrequently seems a bit more on the reasonable end. I'd have more sympathy for Amazon if, say, she was AWOL from work for more than an hour a day with no explanation. Humans are not machines and deserve some flexibility with their time.

to me 6 times during working hours is frequent by any measure, but that's hardly the important thing here. there has to be a line somewhere. is 8 frequent? 10? there is some threshold X, what we care about most is the response to crossing it and the response seems eminently reasonable. getting a note in 2 months is just not a draconian requirement no matter how it is spun. i have to give benefit of the doubt and assu…

Nah.

Having dealt with this before, getting an actual note explaining things from the doctor treating you, or any doctor you attempt to go to afterwards because the first is literally acting like you don't exist, can seriously take 3-6 months.

I can only say, feel lucky or something that you've never had to personally deal with this.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#42

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 1:21 AM UTC

zuminator wrote: post #33

If the issue led to termination it's at least conceivable that it's a little more complicated than the staffer is letting on. If the person took six 5-minute breaks and got their tasks accomplished, no problem. But if they took 6 20-minute bathroom breaks, that's 2 hours out of a day in the bathroom, on a daily basis. That's an employee who's away from their workstation fully 1/4 of their day. Are they really able to…

[deleted]

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#43

Post by mypalmike » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 1:22 AM UTC

crooked-v wrote: post #23

CodeWriter23 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, if pre-employment, one had the privilege of having a primary physician.

As someone with a pretty good job in software, I don't have a primary physician, because what's "in network" changes every time I switch companies.

Indeed, this is one of the reasons I chose to pass on a full time offer recently and negotiated to work under contract instead. I get to keep the same healthcare provider.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#44

Post by mrmuagi » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 1:22 AM UTC

prepend wrote: post #29

Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory you should be using the bathroom every 2 hours if you are drinking the right amount of water. That is 4 times in 8 hours, so 6 is not a lot

No, this is not correct. I drink a gallon of water each day and go 3-4 times. Also, this isn’t for pee breaks as the employee referenced a bowel issue.

I think it varies, yes. People have smaller bladders, some have larger. It also depends on how reactive you are to the sensation of a full bladder, and how risk averse you are to having it full -- perhaps you have had bladder issues, infections, etc. in the past and are mandating a self policy of frequent urination. But it's just a reference range, and if you ever took a blood test, you realize they might not matter some times.

I feel like bowel issues are worse though, since you delinated them. You never ate something that went down wrong? The worst experience I ever had was eating shrimp that caused food poisioning. I practically lived on the toilet, and I think my understanding of what IBS from having a family member who has is gives me a perspective that only offers sympathy rather than criticism unlike other posters. I don't blame people from being doubtful that perhaps the lady in questions self diagnosed as IBS and didn't get a doctors note because it was balogne, but the invasion of medical privacy and heavy handed get-the-note or be-fired dialoge tree the manager has seems fucking bonkers. I suspect it's just an excuse to fire a system designated target -- as amazon does and they just quipped up a reason to fire her.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#45

Post by mypalmike » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 1:23 AM UTC

maxk42 wrote: post #22

geofft wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going to urgent care to get a routine doctor's note for a non-urgent situation wouldn't be covered by insurance, would it?

Walk-in clinics are affordable and frequently faster than urgent care.

I thought walk in clinics were exactly urgent care.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#46

Post by mypalmike » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 1:24 AM UTC

fridif wrote: post #25

Touche wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should not require doctors notes for using the bathroom. Be a human.

Literally this. Just more vindictive management at Amazon.

*vindictive management at most hourly employers

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#47

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 1:25 AM UTC

mrmuagi wrote: post #34

Permit wrote: post #5

> According to the filing, when she told a manager in November about her IBS and that she needed to use the bathroom up to six times a day, the manager told her to get a doctor's note. It appeared from the filing that Olivero didn't get the note. > Olivero then said in the filing that in January her manager said she was going to be written up, and that she'd need to get a doctor's note within five days. That seems...…

The scenario becomes weird when you take a step back and realize that she is a human being and bodily functions are even being monitored in such a way. I go to the bathroom sometimes more than her and the reasons are extremely defensible even outside medical reasons. Drink water often and see (although I would say perhaps with electrolytes mixed in as not to flush them out). I would not even doubt this was an excuse…

60%+ of Americans work in retail once in their lives, where bathroom breaks are almost always monitored. The people working at Walmart, grocery stores, department stores, etc. are absolutely expected to man their shift until their scheduled break, as are many people that work in restaurants, on manufacturing floors, etc.

It's inhumane, yes, but it's not Amazon-specific.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#48

Post by bb88 » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 1:29 AM UTC

kcdev wrote: post #19

geofft wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why require a doctor's note at all? Humans need to go to the bathroom sometimes, and six times in a workday is, while higher than average, not terribly so. If your business processes cannot deal with humans who need to use the bathroom, that's the fault of the business process, not of the humans. It's like me running code on a cloud instance and then asking Amazon for a hardware tech's note when it reboots for hardwa…

You're forgetting this is a warehouse employee where productivity is tracked and ranked against other employees. Amazon cannot write up one employee and not another without something like a dr. note to justify the different treatment.

In other words, they're being stack ranked, right?

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#49

Post by Kranar » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 1:30 AM UTC

mrmuagi wrote: post #44

prepend wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is not correct. I drink a gallon of water each day and go 3-4 times. Also, this isn’t for pee breaks as the employee referenced a bowel issue.

I think it varies, yes. People have smaller bladders, some have larger. It also depends on how reactive you are to the sensation of a full bladder, and how risk averse you are to having it full -- perhaps you have had bladder issues, infections, etc. in the past and are mandating a self policy of frequent urination. But it's just a reference range, and if you ever took a blood test, you realize they might not matter…

The person you're replying to did not make any leap or make any kind of universal judgement. On the contrary it was the person claiming that everyone should be using the bathroom every 2 hours who is making a universal claim. All OP did was point out a single counterexample and in doing so is implying that there is probably not one single universal rate that people should be going to the bathroom.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#50

Post by mypalmike » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 1:30 AM UTC

cosmotic wrote: post #16

Six times doesn't seem like a lot. I bet I go 3 or 4 times a day at work, though maybe half those times are bowel related.

Yeah sometimes I even take long lunches. With my supervisor. No repercussions. Ha ha.

There are so many salaried employees in this thread who don't seem to realize how vastly different it is to be treated like a misbehaving child (aka hourly employee) at work.