Nitrous Oxide – A forgotten greenhouse gas • Hacker News Board

Re: Nitrous Oxide – A forgotten greenhouse gas

#41

Post by Gravityloss » Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 10:30 AM UTC

prennert wrote: post #37

nahuel0x wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if humans doesn't go extinct, the loss of biodiversity created after eons of evolution is a tragedy who put our species to shame. We need to stop worrying only about humanity.

I wonder if the loss of biodiversity during the anthropocene will lead to a post-anthropocenic explosion once humans (which might be the biggest evolutionary constraint at the moment) are gone. If that happens it will be a shame for humans to miss it...

Humans have certainly destroyed a lot of ecosystems, like a volcanic eruption or meteor impact would. So wild nature would recover from that, reclaiming corn fields etc.

But humans have also transported life around, destroying diversity of ecosystems. That's a different kind of change. I guess it's similar to continent configuration changes, like Pangaea or so.

Re: Nitrous Oxide – A forgotten greenhouse gas

#42

Post by microtonal » Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 10:33 AM UTC

warvariuc wrote: post #28

stinos wrote: post #23

Also interesting to note: the heavy use of nitrogen fertiliser is also one of the reasons for the biodiversity crisis. Which according to some is a problem just as serious as the climate crisis, but is much less reported on in global media. Basic principle for the operation: plants which thrive well on nitrogen (think fast-growing grasses, nettles, ...) get an advantage over other plants (typically slower growing lon…

Similar logic applies to the case when we would use laser robots to get rid of weeds. It's artificial selection. Are you suggesting we should stop fighting weeds/insects to get better crops?

We should use far less land for growing crops. One of the primary means for accomplishing this is reducing meat consumption. Meat requires a lot of crops to feed livestock (+ a lot of water), while only contributing a small portion of the calories.

Less meat means less land for crops, which means less fertilizer use or fewer fields with laser robots ;).

Re: Nitrous Oxide – A forgotten greenhouse gas

#43

Post by pfdietz » Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 10:35 AM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #9

lmilcin wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait till they learn about methane. It is respectable 100 times more potent than CO2 and it is produced naturally in vast quantities in thawing permafrost. It is ironic that the biggest producer of greenhouse gasses will soon be Siberia.

At least methane has a very short life in the atmosphere. N2O and these other gases last hundreds of years before breaking down.

SF6 doesn't even break down in the stratosphere. You have to get up to the mesosphere. Estimated atmospheric lifetime is 3200 years, GWP over 23000.

Re: Nitrous Oxide – A forgotten greenhouse gas

#44

Post by mellavora » Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 10:40 AM UTC

warvariuc wrote: post #28

stinos wrote: post #23

Also interesting to note: the heavy use of nitrogen fertiliser is also one of the reasons for the biodiversity crisis. Which according to some is a problem just as serious as the climate crisis, but is much less reported on in global media. Basic principle for the operation: plants which thrive well on nitrogen (think fast-growing grasses, nettles, ...) get an advantage over other plants (typically slower growing lon…

Similar logic applies to the case when we would use laser robots to get rid of weeds. It's artificial selection. Are you suggesting we should stop fighting weeds/insects to get better crops?

maybe you have never heard of agricultural run-off? You might want to read up on i.e. 'dead zones'.

Here is an interesting article from 2018 https://science.sciencemag.org/content/359/6371/eaam7240 Short form " Ocean dead zones with zero oxygen have quadrupled in size since 1950, partly due to Rising nutrient loads"

Longer quote: "Over the past 50 years ... Open-ocean oxygen-minimum zones (OMZs) have expanded by an area about the size of the European Union ... and the volume of water completely devoid of oxygen (anoxic) has more than quadrupled over the same period ... "Agricultural production has greatly increased ..., resulting in a 10-fold increase in global fertilizer use over the same period (47). Nitrogen discharges from rivers to coastal waters increased by 43% in just 30 years from 1970 to 2000 (48), "

Re: Nitrous Oxide – A forgotten greenhouse gas

#45

Post by dredmorbius » Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 10:41 AM UTC

postingawayonhn wrote: post #35

warvariuc wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar logic applies to the case when we would use laser robots to get rid of weeds. It's artificial selection. Are you suggesting we should stop fighting weeds/insects to get better crops?

It's hard to imagine what kind of evolutionary paths would be available to avoid robot weed killers? All I can think of is mimicking the crop that has been planted in the field.

Mimicry is a very prevalent evolutionary phenomenon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimicry

Re: Nitrous Oxide – A forgotten greenhouse gas

#46

Post by mellavora » Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 10:41 AM UTC

charbonneau wrote: post #25

esarbe wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Although I'd put it like this: We're racing towards extinction and almost everyone tries to put the pedal to the metal because it benefits them just enough in the short run. Classic tragedy of the commons!

Not me! I drive a Tesla.

and I'm sure you also charge that Tesla using only 100% carbon-neutral sources.

Re: Nitrous Oxide – A forgotten greenhouse gas

#47

Post by nmca » Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 10:55 AM UTC

dredmorbius wrote: post #45

postingawayonhn wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to imagine what kind of evolutionary paths would be available to avoid robot weed killers? All I can think of is mimicking the crop that has been planted in the field.

Mimicry is a very prevalent evolutionary phenomenon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimicry

They will evolve these [0] and it will be fascinating.

[0] https://iotsecurity.engin.umich.edu/physical-adversarial-exa...

Re: Nitrous Oxide – A forgotten greenhouse gas

#48

Post by dTal » Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 11:02 AM UTC

charbonneau wrote: post #25

esarbe wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Although I'd put it like this: We're racing towards extinction and almost everyone tries to put the pedal to the metal because it benefits them just enough in the short run. Classic tragedy of the commons!

Not me! I drive a Tesla.

Your case would be rather stronger if you didn't drive at all. And ate only vegetables from local fields farmed organically. And never took hot showers. And powered all of your electronics exclusively through wind and solar. And never connected to any servers or over network links that were not sustainably powered.

You seem to be radically underestimating the scale of the problem. Being fortunate enough to be in the set rich enough to afford a luxury electric car absolves you from nothing.

Re: Nitrous Oxide – A forgotten greenhouse gas

#49

Post by detritus » Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 11:05 AM UTC

midnightcity wrote: post #27

bencollier49 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well observed! I wonder if he's posting them as soon as they appear on the news sites. Quite an efficient way of harvesting karma. Unlike your post (or my response to it, I suspect).

It's just my way of working. I use the pomodoro technique https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomodoro_Technique . Then I take a break, have a look at the list of alerts of new articles, and read / post whatever I find interesting. Then another block of work. It's effective for me, although it might not work for everyone.

I'm curious - what's your motivation?

Re: Nitrous Oxide – A forgotten greenhouse gas

#50

Post by tarsinge » Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 11:07 AM UTC

warvariuc wrote: post #28

stinos wrote: post #23

Also interesting to note: the heavy use of nitrogen fertiliser is also one of the reasons for the biodiversity crisis. Which according to some is a problem just as serious as the climate crisis, but is much less reported on in global media. Basic principle for the operation: plants which thrive well on nitrogen (think fast-growing grasses, nettles, ...) get an advantage over other plants (typically slower growing lon…

Similar logic applies to the case when we would use laser robots to get rid of weeds. It's artificial selection. Are you suggesting we should stop fighting weeds/insects to get better crops?

Yes because there is no point in having huge yield now if the soil is dead in a few decades. We need to get over the "fighting" framing (i.e. short-term oversimplified industrial vision with 0 concern regarding sustainability).