Can't Amazon just serve these bogus headers and keep opensearch compatible? It's not like headers are copyrighted...
Amazon is doing the opposite. They're making their OpenSearch client compatible with both OpenSearch and ElasticSearch.
Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks
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Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks
#42I use to be a huge proponent of Elastic.co for search. I paid for their Elastic Cloud Enterprise product to offer an internally hosted Elastic as a Service. We ran a proof of concept with the the open source Elastic Stack before requesting the funding to get commercial support and the extra management features. I'm not sure I can recommend them anymore. The company doesn't seem to understand their customer's journey…
It is easy to judge another’s actions from afar when it’s their meal and roof they’re working for. It’s okay for Amazon (a trillion dollar company) to make money off of their work but not themselves? Imho, the problem isn’t “well it’s not open source anymore then.” The problem is people who give more weight to a religion/philosophy than sustainability. Who cares if it’s open source if the people developing it can’t s…
It's entirely possible that the relicense and now this will have the the precisely the opposite effect though. I'm sure the relicense was an attempt to increase Elastic NV's revenues from SaaS by locking out competitors from using their same codebase (from public financial filings, Elastic NV is not profitable so they are probably looking to become so). But open source also attracts new customers and improves the product by encouraging outside contribution. It could very well be that in 10 years we'll look back as this year that led to downfall of Elastic as a company. Or this move towards a different business model could succeed. But even if it does succeed, it's possible it would also succeed if they had kept the code open source.
The person you responded to didn't even assert that open source software is morally superior to alternatives, but instead said that by moving away from open source, Elastic is failing to understand its customers. His argument doesn't require any judgement about the morality of the relicense.
Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks
#43PostgreSQL should be everyone’s first choice for a data store. It can do so much, including serving as your full text search system.
Elastic's main selling point is not so much the full text search. The search is what it does but most of it's value is centered in the management/scaling/monitoring of full text search over many machines. I love Postgres but it's "clustering" story is definitely not as user friendly.
Have a look at YugabyteDB then.
Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks
#44PostgreSQL should be everyone’s first choice for a data store. It can do so much, including serving as your full text search system.
How much of Elastic's usage is ELK logging vs. application search?
Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks
#45Can't Amazon just serve these bogus headers and keep opensearch compatible? It's not like headers are copyrighted...
Amazon could try that, but it wouldn't stop there. they'd end up in a constant arms race. also, that "you know, for search" tagline is featured on t-shirts sold by Elastic [0]. seems entirely plausible to me that Amazon & Elastic lawyers could get into a pissing contest about potential trademark or copyright protection of that term and whether sending it as an HTTP header constitutes infringement. 0: https://elastic.…
Apple won their Hackintosh copyright lawsuit against Psystar over their copyright haiku that the machine will refuse to boot if absent.
https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-warns-off-os-pirates-wit...
Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
If they don't like it, they shouldn't have licensed their software under a free software license. This was an entirely foreseeable consequence. They only have themselves to blame. The AGPL generally fixes this perceived problem, but means that several large players (like Google) will never touch your code with a ten foot pole, let alone improve it. So, there's some difficult decision-making at the inception stage of…
Heaven forbid a FAANG doesn’t touch your code. Look at all the exposure you’ll miss out on. They might actually have to spend resources to write and maintain the code themselves, instead of open source maintainers begging for scraps [1]. The horror. The homebrew maintainer couldn’t even get hired at Google [2] if I recall, even though they’re big fans of using the tooling internally! [1] https://arstechnica.com/infor…
Sort of how Elastic using the license that’s biting them; can’t really expect much else so long as “it’s a private company they can hire as they see fit” is the default political posture.
Your problem transcends one whiner on Twitter; private entities can monopolize public agency across contexts and not be held accountable at all.
Here you are in a VC echo chamber; good luck
Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks
#47Can't Amazon just serve these bogus headers and keep opensearch compatible? It's not like headers are copyrighted...
Likely! It worked against SEGA, in the Sega v. Accolade case. Unlicensed Accolade (and later, SEGA Dreamcast homebrew games) displayed a Sega copyright logo because they were (believed to be) needed to run arbitrary executables.
Makes me think of "Oracle poetry": https://dacut.blogspot.com/2008/03/oracle-poetry.html
Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
Amazon could try that, but it wouldn't stop there. they'd end up in a constant arms race. also, that "you know, for search" tagline is featured on t-shirts sold by Elastic [0]. seems entirely plausible to me that Amazon & Elastic lawyers could get into a pissing contest about potential trademark or copyright protection of that term and whether sending it as an HTTP header constitutes infringement. 0: https://elastic.…
Apple won their Hackintosh copyright lawsuit against Psystar over their copyright haiku that the machine will refuse to boot if absent. https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-warns-off-os-pirates-wit...
The haiku is “ourhardworkbythesewordsguardedpleasedontsteal(c)AppleComputerInc”, whereas the linked poem is loaded with DSMOS I think.
Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
If they don't like it, they shouldn't have licensed their software under a free software license. This was an entirely foreseeable consequence. They only have themselves to blame. The AGPL generally fixes this perceived problem, but means that several large players (like Google) will never touch your code with a ten foot pole, let alone improve it. So, there's some difficult decision-making at the inception stage of…
>If they don't like it, they shouldn't have licensed their software under a free software license They or anyone else are also free to relicense their project, there's nothing wrong with it at all and anything under the old license is still what it was before. It seems kinda strange to demand that someone operate under some license in perpetuity, there is no such rule. Licensing questions don't stop after the incepti…
No ones demanding they don’t change, they’re just stating that as users they’ll react accordingly.
Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks
#50This should be forked to be opensource compatible. Opensource doesn't mean that you get to control everything. If what you're offering doesn't stand on its own merits then what's it worth? I get that we wish Amazon couldn't do what they do but that's what the license permits.
The maintainers of the project chose to implement this change. You may not like it, and you are free to make a fork compatible with the original apache 2.0 license, but it is well within Elastic's right to add this. This is the danger with corporate open source in general. Facebook made a similar unilateral decision in relicensing React from Apache 2 to "BSD + Patents" many years ago. They faced quite a bit of pressu…
No one is disputing it's within their rights. It's within their rights to add a feature to the library that blasts "Caramelldansen" through the nearest Chromecast device when you import it, too.
What they're saying is that this is a breach of community norms.