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Whistleblowers expose corruption in EPA Chemical Safety Office

theintercept.com

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Re: Whistleblowers expose corruption in EPA Chemical Safety Office

#41

Post by jrockway »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #39
voisin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sorry to hear about the personal impact to your family. I think things like the air quality sensor you run are the actual solution here. In the absence of government officials doing their job properly, it is up to individuals to do it for themselves. I wonder if there would be an open source solution for water quality testing and air quality testing, and if enough could be built by citizen hackers to create a di…

>"In the absence of government officials doing their job properly, it is up to individuals to do it for themselves." Does 'it' include seizing the means of pollution and dismantling them brick by brick? Otherwise you'll be in same situation as my town in Russia, where everyone knowns about a polluting zink refunery upwind, and it's still giving thousands of people cancer.

I feel like in the US, public pressure can result in action against corporations that are killing people. The government has the legal framework to bring these types of cases, but may not always find every case on its own. The squeaky wheel gets the grease and all that.

Re: Whistleblowers expose corruption in EPA Chemical Safety Office

#42

Post by zug_zug »

I try not to get emotional, but part of me thinks if death penalty were applicable to such crimes it would be an extraordinarily pragmatic decision. The history of chemicals damaging American lives due to corruption is long and sordid. Many of these chemicals, if improperly classified, can ruin an order of magnitude more lives than any serial killer.

It can be rather shocking and disturbing to remind oneself exactly how fragile our bodies are to even the tiniest amounts of certain chemicals, particularly in vitro.

Re: Whistleblowers expose corruption in EPA Chemical Safety Office

#43

Post by zug_zug »

topspin wrote: post #5

Why are the various 'manager' names carefully avoided in this sort of reporting? Many other names, including the whistleblowers, are prominently offered. What rule is the Intercept complying with that has them bleep out (thus we known these names are known) the name of a manager in the audio and assiduously omit any manager names in the writing? Names would reveal relationships. Doubtless these managers are former or…

I agree 100%. If I were one of these scientists, my manager's name would be leaked onto social media by some anonymous account and that internet angst would be put to good use. Crimes of corruption that lead to birth defects in babies for the sake of corporate profits are so outrageous that having to answer in the public square for it is befitting.

Re: Whistleblowers expose corruption in EPA Chemical Safety Office

#44

Post by zug_zug »

gumby wrote: post #14
jacquesm wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if you steal a tin of catfood your name will be in the newspapers for the whole world to read and google three decades later.

Typically only once you’ve been arrested.

Well that wasn't the case with cops in last year's protest. Sometimes the names need to come first so the public can insist on the crimes being acknowledged.

Re: Whistleblowers expose corruption in EPA Chemical Safety Office

#45

Post by totetsu »

voisin wrote: post #12
kingsloi wrote: post #3

My little girl was born with really rare heart disease and a genetic condition, a boy a few streets behind us developed a really rare cancer. - https://kingsley.sh/posts/2021/staggering-cost-of-surviving-... - https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/18/us/ben-watkins-masterchef/ind... This comes a year or so after a ArcelorMittal spilled ammonia and cyanide into Lake Michigan, and didn't sound the alarm for a few days. My wife a…

I am sorry to hear about the personal impact to your family. I think things like the air quality sensor you run are the actual solution here. In the absence of government officials doing their job properly, it is up to individuals to do it for themselves. I wonder if there would be an open source solution for water quality testing and air quality testing, and if enough could be built by citizen hackers to create a di…

In Japan after 3/11 there was a citizen movement to track radiation because the govenment data, and collection was questionable. Im not.sure of the details, but the govt hit back pretty hard, and even introduced new official secrets legislation.

Re: Whistleblowers expose corruption in EPA Chemical Safety Office

#46

Post by topspin »

_jal wrote: post #40
wbl wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Truth is an absolute defense to libel in the US. Furthermore because this is the sort of reporting on a matter of public concern that society benefits from the standard gets tighter: it's not enough to show something was false, you have to show the publication should have known or acted maliciously in publishing. Incredibly high bar.

Yeah, but you still have to defend it in court, and that's an expensive distraction. There is currently a bit of a rash of high-profile, low-probability-of-success libels suits going on. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if publishers are being especially cautious.

Cowardice then.

Re: Whistleblowers expose corruption in EPA Chemical Safety Office

#47

Post by 55555 »

cogman10 wrote: post #18

This is, frankly, the legacy of the Trump administration. This story of blatant corruption to favor businesses was common throughout the federal government. The Trump admin went out of it's way to both install the worst of the worst and to push out as many competent federal employees as possible. Prime examples of Trump swamp creatures include such hits as Ajit Pai, Scott Pruitt (Who likely started the policies of th…

Sorry but this is nothing new for the US federal government. This sort of corruption was going on for centuries before Trump. Unless you can tie Trump to this case specifically, your comment is overly political. It's also not useful; if this is Trump's fault, why was this problem occurring before he took office, and why is it still occurring? Let's discuss solutions.

Re: Whistleblowers expose corruption in EPA Chemical Safety Office

#48

Post by destitude »

rz2k wrote: post #38
kingsloi wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree! I love their open API, too! I'm in the process of creating a 501c, and as part of my mission to raise awareness, I'm going to purchase 5-10 PurpleAir II and have them across Lake Michigan's entire shoreline. Or, that's part of my plan. Ideally I'd run a more extensive sensor that tracks more than just PM, but I have a feeling pollution varies a lot in a small distance, we get lake effect weather, but what ab…

The Purple Air network and their map is great. Each has two Plantower PMS5003 sensors for redundancy or accuracy. However, you can purchase the Plantower sensors yourself at about $15/unit, which could help with the costs when you're trying to roll out a lot of them.

If you used the Plantower PMS5003 sensor by itself how would you be able to distribute the data? PurpleAir has arrangement with government to have their data added to official measurements and can be seen on https://fire.airnow.gov

Re: Whistleblowers expose corruption in EPA Chemical Safety Office

#49

Post by atatatat »

sschueller wrote: post #2

It won't be a vaccine that makes you sterile. It will be one of the chemicals that end up everywhere because of corruption at the only agency that would protect us. This is also why those people for a unregulated free market are insane. Sure the company pedaling the dangerous chemical will eventual go out of business. But how many people will die and suffer and does anyone think that the people responsible will still…

> This is also why those people for a unregulated free market are insane.

Unfair tangent, because if it was a truly free market, the government wouldn't hold a monopoly on violence.

Re: Whistleblowers expose corruption in EPA Chemical Safety Office

#50

Post by thescriptkiddie »

zug_zug wrote: post #42

I try not to get emotional, but part of me thinks if death penalty were applicable to such crimes it would be an extraordinarily pragmatic decision. The history of chemicals damaging American lives due to corruption is long and sordid. Many of these chemicals, if improperly classified, can ruin an order of magnitude more lives than any serial killer. It can be rather shocking and disturbing to remind oneself exactly…

I am absolutely opposed to the death penalty and to punitive prison sentences in general, but I do feel like there needs to be some kind of extra harsh treatment for people who do things like this. I'm honestly at a loss for what it might be. Maybe public humiliation, or exile?
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