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The Problem with Perceptual Hashes

rentafounder.com

41–50 of 440 posts

Re: The Problem with Perceptual Hashes

#41

> an Apple employee will then look at your (flagged) pictures. This means that there will be people paid to look at child pornography and probably a lot of private nude pictures as well.

I'm sure thats the dream position for most pedophiles, watching child porn fully legally and being paid for it, plus on the record being someone who helps destroy it; and given that CP will exist for as long as human beings do there will be no shortage no matter how much they help capturing other pedophiles.

Re: The Problem with Perceptual Hashes

#42
post #26
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm sure I'm not the only person with naked pictures of my wife. I'm not completely convinced that says what you want it to.

Didn't she possibly have previous partners?

Presumably she wasn’t his wife then. But also people have various arrangements so I’m not here to shame.

Re: The Problem with Perceptual Hashes

#43
post #33

Given all the zero day exploits on iOS I wonder if it's now going to be viable to hack someone's phone and upload child porn to their account. Apple with happily flag the photos and then, likely, get those people arrested. Now they have to, in practice, prove they were hacked which might be impossible. Will either ruin their reputation or put them in jail for a long time. Given past witch hunts it could be decades be…

This is really a difficult problem to solve I think. However, I think most people who are prosecuted for CP distribution are hoarding it by the terabyte. It’s hard to claim that you were unaware of that. A couple of gigabytes though? Plausible. And that’s what this CSAM scanner thing is going to find on phones.

A couple gigabytes is a lot of photos... and they'd all be showing up in your camera roll. Maybe possible but stretching the bounds of plausibility.

Re: The Problem with Perceptual Hashes

#44

I do not know as much about perceptual hashing as I would like, but have considered it for a little project of my own. Still, I know it has been floating around in the wild. I recently came across it on Discord when I attempted to push an ancient image, from the 4chan of old, to a friend, which mysteriously wouldn't send. Saved it as a PNG, no dice. This got me interested. I stripped the EXIF data off of the original…

Adding your friend as a "friend" on discord should disable the filter.

Re: The Problem with Perceptual Hashes

#45

Apple’s documents said they require multiple hits before anything happens, as the article notes. They can (and have) adjusted that number to any desired balance of false positive to negatives. How can they say it’s 1 in a trillion? You test the algorithm on a bunch of random negatives, see how many positives you get, and do one division and one multiplication. This isn’t rocket science. So, while there are many argum…

That would not be a good way to arrive at an accurate estimate. Would you not need dozens of trillions of photos to begin with in order to get an accurate estimate when the occurrence rate is so small?

Re: The Problem with Perceptual Hashes

#46

> an Apple employee will then look at your (flagged) pictures. This means that there will be people paid to look at child pornography and probably a lot of private nude pictures as well.

And what do you think the content moderation teams employed by Facebook, YouTube, et al. do all day?

[deleted]

Re: The Problem with Perceptual Hashes

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already do this for photodna-matched iCloud Photos (and Google Photos, Flickr, Imgur, etc), perceptual hashes do not change that.

I'm not familiar with iPhone picture storage. Are the pictures automatically sync'ed with cloud storage? I would assume (even if I don't like it) that cloud providers may be scanning my data. But I would not expect anyone to be able to see or scan what is stored on my phone. Incidentally, I work in computer vision and handle proprietary images. I would be violating client agreements if I let anyone else have access t…

You can disable automatic backups, this way your photos won’t ever be uploaded to iCloud.

Re: The Problem with Perceptual Hashes

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already do this for photodna-matched iCloud Photos (and Google Photos, Flickr, Imgur, etc), perceptual hashes do not change that.

I'm not familiar with iPhone picture storage. Are the pictures automatically sync'ed with cloud storage? I would assume (even if I don't like it) that cloud providers may be scanning my data. But I would not expect anyone to be able to see or scan what is stored on my phone. Incidentally, I work in computer vision and handle proprietary images. I would be violating client agreements if I let anyone else have access t…

By default it is enabled. One has to go through Settings to turn off the default iCloud upload, afaik.

Re: The Problem with Perceptual Hashes

#50

I've also implemented perceptual hashing algorithms for use in the real world. Article is correct, there really is no way to eliminate false positives while still catching minor changes (say, resizing, cropping, or watermarking). I'm sure I'm not the only person with naked pictures of my wife. Do you really want a false positive to result in your intimate moments getting shared around some outsourced boiler room for…

Why would other people have a naked picture of your wife?
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