France Gave Teenagers $350 for Culture. They’re Buying Comic Books • Hacker News Board

Re: France Gave Teenagers $350 for Culture. They’re Buying Comic Books

#41

Post by duxup » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 5:50 PM UTC

jgrahamc wrote: post #20

Am I to understand from this that the New York Times (and perhaps the bien pensant in the US) consider mere "comic books" some sort of gutter culture? My last trip to Paris I spent a long time in these "comic book" stores. They are absolute goldmines with passionate and knowledgeable staff and incredible selections.

The impression I got from the article was that the author described comic books as separate from "highbrow arts"... but beyond that I got no impression of any of "gutter culture" implications.

I honestly just thought of it as an interesting article about what happens when you do the thing they describe. Not any particular judgment.

Re: France Gave Teenagers $350 for Culture. They’re Buying Comic Books

#42

Post by nagrom » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

cwizou wrote: post #25

As an aside, it's been a bit surprising to see the disconnect on so many topics regarding France in the NYT in the last few months. This seems like just the latest (and fairly mild) episode of this, but it's still a bit puzzling to me as a former (sort of) journalist to see so much editorialising, and in this case, an utter lack of facts and context. There's not much on the goals behind that pass, the impact of covid…

It's not just France - the way that the NYT treats the UK has become a running joke e.g:

https://londonist.com/london/food-and-drink/until-recently-l...

https://unherd.com/2020/01/what-has-the-new-york-times-got-a...

This weird inability to reflect reality I see day-to-day coupled with the insistence on anti-patterns of behaviour for those cancelling their subscriptions has prevented me from taking out a sub to the NYT. That's a shame, as some of the articles are great.

Re: France Gave Teenagers $350 for Culture. They’re Buying Comic Books

#43

Post by rossdavidh » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

cwizou wrote: post #25

As an aside, it's been a bit surprising to see the disconnect on so many topics regarding France in the NYT in the last few months. This seems like just the latest (and fairly mild) episode of this, but it's still a bit puzzling to me as a former (sort of) journalist to see so much editorialising, and in this case, an utter lack of facts and context. There's not much on the goals behind that pass, the impact of covid…

Definitely not just you.

Re: France Gave Teenagers $350 for Culture. They’re Buying Comic Books

#44

Post by jacquesm » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

arcturus17 wrote: post #36

jacquesm wrote: post #3

Comic books are culture. Whether you like that or not is a matter of taste. Personally I absolutely love 'Gaston' and 'Asterix', but also like some other old school ones. The newer stuff I don't feel much connection with.

Gaston is possibly some of the best humor I've ever seen in any cultural medium. Tintin was gripping too, and arguably the greatest cultural icon to come from European comics. In Spain we had a good comic culture from the 50s onwards, with perhaps one of the greatest exponents being Mortadelo y Filemón which had was hilarious and had some international exposure (I've seen it in German flea markets as Clever & Smart)…

I have a story about Gaston, and how funny it is. When I was a kid I would read with a flashlight under the covers after the time that I was supposed to be in bed and sleeping. This worked well for most books but with Gaston I couldn't help myself being in stitches from time to time which invariably attracted unwanted parental attention.

There are a couple that immediately spring to mind, the one where he launches the gas container from the roof of his car, the 'running gag' about the contracts that never get signed and that surprise in fact do get signed and then are promptly shredded by the cat and the badly humored seagull that drops stuff on people.

And the parking meter wars, hilarious.

Re: France Gave Teenagers $350 for Culture. They’re Buying Comic Books

#45

Post by vlunkr » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

SilasX wrote: post #26

jacquesm wrote: post #3

Comic books are culture. Whether you like that or not is a matter of taste. Personally I absolutely love 'Gaston' and 'Asterix', but also like some other old school ones. The newer stuff I don't feel much connection with.

Regardless of what you consider "culture", the French government had some conception of what kinds of things they wanted the teens to engage in, and this isn't it (even if it's worthwhile in its own right). I think that's the article's point, and the program may respond by restricting the funds' usage in the future.

> the French government had some conception of what kinds of things they wanted the teens to engage in, and this isn't it

Is that true though? Maybe some people in the government feel that way, but it sounds like the goal was just to allow teenagers to buy what they wanted. If they thought kids were going to spend it to go the opera or something, why wouldn't they have put more restrictions on it in the first place?

Re: France Gave Teenagers $350 for Culture. They’re Buying Comic Books

#46

Post by ithkuil » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 5:53 PM UTC

mtts wrote: post #29

jgrahamc wrote: post #20

Am I to understand from this that the New York Times (and perhaps the bien pensant in the US) consider mere "comic books" some sort of gutter culture? My last trip to Paris I spent a long time in these "comic book" stores. They are absolute goldmines with passionate and knowledgeable staff and incredible selections.

According to the article they’re not buying the indeed fantastic French “BD” comic books but manga.

Are you insinuating that manga is not culture?

Re: France Gave Teenagers $350 for Culture. They’re Buying Comic Books

#47

Post by realo » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 5:53 PM UTC

jgrahamc wrote: post #20

Am I to understand from this that the New York Times (and perhaps the bien pensant in the US) consider mere "comic books" some sort of gutter culture? My last trip to Paris I spent a long time in these "comic book" stores. They are absolute goldmines with passionate and knowledgeable staff and incredible selections.

There is no reason for the NYT snobism. Americans also make great « Comic book » art.

Here is an example:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maus

Yes… this is definitely art in my book.

Re: France Gave Teenagers $350 for Culture. They’re Buying Comic Books

#48

Post by mcguire » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 5:54 PM UTC

mtts wrote: post #29

jgrahamc wrote: post #20

Am I to understand from this that the New York Times (and perhaps the bien pensant in the US) consider mere "comic books" some sort of gutter culture? My last trip to Paris I spent a long time in these "comic book" stores. They are absolute goldmines with passionate and knowledgeable staff and incredible selections.

According to the article they’re not buying the indeed fantastic French “BD” comic books but manga.

That's not bad either, unless they're under the weird delusion that the only valid culture in France is French culture.

(I personally find manga to be excessively drawn-out, even more than American comics, seemingly in order to sell more books. But that's me.)

Re: France Gave Teenagers $350 for Culture. They’re Buying Comic Books

#49

Post by rootsudo » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 5:55 PM UTC

mtts wrote: post #29

jgrahamc wrote: post #20

Am I to understand from this that the New York Times (and perhaps the bien pensant in the US) consider mere "comic books" some sort of gutter culture? My last trip to Paris I spent a long time in these "comic book" stores. They are absolute goldmines with passionate and knowledgeable staff and incredible selections.

According to the article they’re not buying the indeed fantastic French “BD” comic books but manga.

Manga is very good nowadays, I don't blame the kids. Go with what's in. It's culture.

Re: France Gave Teenagers $350 for Culture. They’re Buying Comic Books

#50

Post by WastingMyTime89 » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 5:56 PM UTC

SilasX wrote: post #26

jacquesm wrote: post #3

Comic books are culture. Whether you like that or not is a matter of taste. Personally I absolutely love 'Gaston' and 'Asterix', but also like some other old school ones. The newer stuff I don't feel much connection with.

Regardless of what you consider "culture", the French government had some conception of what kinds of things they wanted the teens to engage in, and this isn't it (even if it's worthwhile in its own right). I think that's the article's point, and the program may respond by restricting the funds' usage in the future.

> the French government had some conception of what kinds of things they wanted the teens to engage in, and this isn't it

What? The French government isn't dumb. If they didn't want, teenagers to spend the pass money on BD, it would have been excluded. As is, I assume the French government is perfectly fine with French teenagers spending it on French produced entertainment in French stores.