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MacType: Better Font Rendering for Windows

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Re: MacType: Better Font Rendering for Windows

#41

Post by aasasd »

crazygringo wrote: post #7

It's bizarre that neither the README nor the associated minimal site explains what it does in detail, with screenshots or anything. I'm assuming this is a modern version of GDI++, which a decade ago brought Mac-style font rendering to Windows, but stopped being maintained a while ago. For people who aren't aware of the difference, it's essentially that Windows uses heavy font hinting to try to align character strokes…

A side-effect of Windows pinning fonts to pixels is that you can't get arbitrary font sizes and scaling. E.g. I had to use “font-size: 82%” in CSS, because at 80% the text looked bad (pinned to the wrong pixel, and possibly became blurry, can't remember for sure). Likewise, zooming in browsers was a mess.

This was ten years ago, so dunno if anything has changed.

Re: MacType: Better Font Rendering for Windows

#42

Post by Osiris »

tomc1985 wrote: post #25
nwallin wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's wild to me that on both Windows and OSX that something that is obviously just personal preference is baked into the operating system, with no method for changing it. It's on the same level as having an operating system that didn't let you change your desktop background.

Optionality is one of those things that product managers hate right now, so the likelihood of that appearing if it hasn't already are slim That said, Windows has highly configurable font hinting/rendering so I'm perplexed as to why this project is a thing

Exactly. Since the beginning of ClearType there's been a tool in Windows to adjust the ClearType hinting. I've used it many times myself. However, as stated before, it's much less necessary with high resolution displays.

Re: MacType: Better Font Rendering for Windows

#43

Post by dragonwriter »

Toutouxc wrote: post #36
nwallin wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's wild to me that on both Windows and OSX that something that is obviously just personal preference is baked into the operating system, with no method for changing it. It's on the same level as having an operating system that didn't let you change your desktop background.

> something that is obviously just personal preference I have a feeling that this exact idea is the reason why most Linux DEs look like crap [to me]. The way fonts look (especially those used in the system UI) is, just like colors or margins, [in my opinion] a matter of design, not just personal preference.

Design is is just what creators do on one end to satisfy the aggregate of personal preference in the target context and audience on the other end.

Re: MacType: Better Font Rendering for Windows

#44

Post by behnamoh »

I've been using this for a while and am quite happy with the results. Although, I had to create my own customized profile for the best results.

The effect is esp. obvious when working on Word documents. Somehow fonts are not rendered "thick" enough in Word, and this app takes care of that.

Honestly, I wish MS would do something about blurred fonts in some of the not-so-old programs. Some parts of the Windows OS itself are not rendered correctly!!

Re: MacType: Better Font Rendering for Windows

#45

Post by userbinator »

tomc1985 wrote: post #25
nwallin wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's wild to me that on both Windows and OSX that something that is obviously just personal preference is baked into the operating system, with no method for changing it. It's on the same level as having an operating system that didn't let you change your desktop background.

Optionality is one of those things that product managers hate right now, so the likelihood of that appearing if it hasn't already are slim That said, Windows has highly configurable font hinting/rendering so I'm perplexed as to why this project is a thing

Windows is slowly losing configuration. From the very first versions you had complete control over fonts, colours, and sizes of UI elements, then starting with Win8 they removed that, and now in Win10 it's very hard to change something like the font for icons and the (horribly low contrast) taskbar button highlight colour.

It's still possible to force (most of) it to the good old MS Sans Serif and with no antialiasing, the way I like it, but it's getting harder with each new version.

Re: MacType: Better Font Rendering for Windows

#46

Post by andrewmcwatters »

nwallin wrote: post #18
crazygringo wrote: post #7

It's bizarre that neither the README nor the associated minimal site explains what it does in detail, with screenshots or anything. I'm assuming this is a modern version of GDI++, which a decade ago brought Mac-style font rendering to Windows, but stopped being maintained a while ago. For people who aren't aware of the difference, it's essentially that Windows uses heavy font hinting to try to align character strokes…

It's wild to me that on both Windows and OSX that something that is obviously just personal preference is baked into the operating system, with no method for changing it. It's on the same level as having an operating system that didn't let you change your desktop background.

As soon as you realize that changing rasterization strategies alters the bounding box of character textures, and that a lot of UI positions are hardcoded, it makes sense.

Re: MacType: Better Font Rendering for Windows

#47

Post by blehn »

yepthatsreality wrote: post #5

I don’t use Windows anymore (Pop_os and FreeBSD) but never had an issue with how the fonts rendered. The site doesn’t seem to indicate anymore information either.

Windows biases for a sharper text appearance, whereas Mac is much smoother. I can see why some folks prefer the sharp look, but fonts on Windows often look nothing like what the designer intended. Mac is a lot more true to the font design.

Re: MacType: Better Font Rendering for Windows

#48

Post by forrestthewoods »

crazygringo wrote: post #7

It's bizarre that neither the README nor the associated minimal site explains what it does in detail, with screenshots or anything. I'm assuming this is a modern version of GDI++, which a decade ago brought Mac-style font rendering to Windows, but stopped being maintained a while ago. For people who aren't aware of the difference, it's essentially that Windows uses heavy font hinting to try to align character strokes…

> Fortunately, high-resolution "retina" style displays make the distinction much less important

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Windows machines are still primarily 1080p. Windows renders font differently that macOS/iOS and is lower resolution. The number of graphics designers that fail to test their font or content on 1080p Windows machines is too damn high!

Re: MacType: Better Font Rendering for Windows

#49

Post by 1--6zVa-E »

ascom wrote: post #40
didibus wrote: post #9

I just switched from Windows to a Mac, and I immediately found that the colors and contrast and the clarity of images and text on the same monitor I connect my laptop too improved. I wasn't sure if it was just in my head, but something about the rendering in Mac seems better to me. I don't know if they have better calibration for colors and contrast, better anti-aliasing, etc., but I seem to see the screen much bette…

Another possibility is that macOS actually does proper color management throughout the entire OS - the Windows shell/desktop is simply not color managed and it's especially irritating when you have a wide color gamut monitor.

It’s laughable that the default photos app in Windows 10 is not color managed, yet the previous Windows Photo Viewer from Windows 7 is…

Re: MacType: Better Font Rendering for Windows

#50

Post by ReactiveJelly »

syspec wrote: post #31

Any before / after screenshots? I really don't understand when someone makes a project such as this (which seems to have been around for a while), and does not include at least 1 screenshot

Yeah, I thought this was a library for app developers to build on, like Skia.

But people are saying it's meant to inject code into existing processes.

The heck is it?

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