South Africa issues world’s first patent listing AI as inventor • Hacker News Board

Re: South Africa issues world’s first patent listing AI as inventor

#41

Post by robertlagrant » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 1:24 PM UTC

dasudasu wrote: post #40

soco wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This can be done also without listing AI as the inventor. What was stopping them yesterday from generating random patents and is not stopping them today with this?

Nothing at all. The friction is that it costs a decent chunk of money to submit patents. It’s not worthwhile to submit gibberish ones that will never be accepted, or never hold up in court if accepted but challenged. But there is probably some potential market for an innovative AI able to produce patents worth more than the fees they incur, for legitimate or trolling purposes.

Of course, then you need to understand what patents you have, which requires just as much work as drafting the patent in the first place :)

Re: South Africa issues world’s first patent listing AI as inventor

#42

Post by gitgud » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 1:27 PM UTC

What does it even mean to have AI as the inventor, is that referring to the name of the file on the disk?

AI software isn't like any legal entity that currently exists. Software can be duplicated instantly, people and companies cannot.

Re: South Africa issues world’s first patent listing AI as inventor

#43

Post by londons_explore » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 1:33 PM UTC

0xTJ wrote: post #24

londons_explore wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A patent fee should keep this behaviour to a minimum... Patents already have quite a big fee, but perhaps it should be made larger to prevent this kind of abuse. If the large fee prevents inventors, then perhaps some scheme along the lines of 'The fee is $50 for the first 5 inventions, then $100k per patent after that" might be suitable.

I hate to be pessimistic, but I'm sure this would lead to situations where dummy companies are set up for registering the patent, and are then acquired by the patent troll, with all those assets.

Have it like income taxes... Ie., it's per citizen and companies can't be the inventor (or if they do, they have to pay the higher rate).

Re: South Africa issues world’s first patent listing AI as inventor

#44

Post by alistairSH » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 1:35 PM UTC

pfundstein wrote: post #35

lettergram wrote: post #25

Yeah the rest of the world declined this because the AI (1) isn’t a legal person (2) wouldn’t be able to confer ownership and (3) identify when the patent was being infringed. This is silly. Great theater, but nothing else. That being said AI patents are an issue, but I don’t think they’re quite there yet.

I would suggest instead of viewing AI as the creator, it should be viewed as a tool, and the person/team who built the AI as the true creators.

Isn't that effectively what this outcome does? The AI is listed as the creator, but the patent is held by the person that crated the AI. IANAL, but doesn't that mean the Dr Thaler has the legal rights to the patent?

South Africa has become the first country to award a patent that names an artificial intelligence as its inventor and the AI’s owner as the patent's owner.

Edit - I not claiming this is the correct result. Just looking for clarification on what this means, legally speaking.

Re: South Africa issues world’s first patent listing AI as inventor

#45

Post by st_goliath » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 1:41 PM UTC

lettergram wrote: post #25

Yeah the rest of the world declined this because the AI (1) isn’t a legal person (2) wouldn’t be able to confer ownership and (3) identify when the patent was being infringed. This is silly. Great theater, but nothing else. That being said AI patents are an issue, but I don’t think they’re quite there yet.

Yeah, I think the key aspect of the story isn't that they somehow convinced the patent office, but more likely that the patent office in South Africa was the first one they tried that didn't bother to check if the people listed as inventors actually exist.

(Given that we don't have their side of the story and they are only listed as not having rejected it)

Re: South Africa issues world’s first patent listing AI as inventor

#46

Post by annoyingnoob » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 1:41 PM UTC

dasudasu wrote: post #36

dleslie wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAICT, a sufficient AI review examiner would validate all inputs that are reasonably coherent, but not necessarily novel.

More likely to be the opposite. It would be very easy to explore prior art through tons of databases. On the other hand, AI has been touted for years to be on the verge of revolutionizing case law and this has yet to happen.

In my experience with patents, you don't really need something novel as much as you need unique words in your patent, its all about wordsmithing.

Re: South Africa issues world’s first patent listing AI as inventor

#47

Post by cowl » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 1:42 PM UTC

rafaelturk wrote: post #6

I don't know about you, but for me this feels like the gates of hell opening for patent trolls. AI can produce thousands of patents in a single day. As always patent trolls make no money from patents, but from the bureaucratic process. So a schema like this that allows virtually unlimited patents to be created will increase even more trolls misbehavior

These patents will be enforced only by AI courts and any potential settlement needs to be in "energy points"

Re: South Africa issues world’s first patent listing AI as inventor

#48

Post by ISL » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 1:44 PM UTC

rafaelturk wrote: post #6

I don't know about you, but for me this feels like the gates of hell opening for patent trolls. AI can produce thousands of patents in a single day. As always patent trolls make no money from patents, but from the bureaucratic process. So a schema like this that allows virtually unlimited patents to be created will increase even more trolls misbehavior

If so, seventeen years later, nothing will be patentable.

Re: South Africa issues world’s first patent listing AI as inventor

#49

Post by HenryKissinger » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 1:45 PM UTC

cowl wrote: post #47

rafaelturk wrote: post #6

I don't know about you, but for me this feels like the gates of hell opening for patent trolls. AI can produce thousands of patents in a single day. As always patent trolls make no money from patents, but from the bureaucratic process. So a schema like this that allows virtually unlimited patents to be created will increase even more trolls misbehavior

These patents will be enforced only by AI courts and any potential settlement needs to be in "energy points"

Courts in and of themselves have no hard power. Law enforcement agents and other officers of the peace are the ones in charge of delivering on courts judgements.

I, for one, welcome our new Robocop overlords.

Re: South Africa issues world’s first patent listing AI as inventor

#50

Post by helsinkiandrew » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 1:48 PM UTC

I'm not sure what this means - I thought Inventor meant owner or part owner in some sense unless the ownership has been transferred, presumably Dabus isn't a legal entity - so this is meaningless.